I was hoping I could get some advice about how to deal with another player in the campaign I'm taking part in.

The campaign has been running since the beggining of April and I'm currently playing a psyker. My Psyker, Claudia, doesn't want anyone including the team to know she's a psyker. Her back story is that she suffered amnesia after her sanctioning and didnt realise she could touch the warp. She ended up on a planet that would actively hunt all witches and commit most to death, hence when her memories returned she had to keep her secret from everybody. Fast forwards to her being employed by the Inquisition she still keeps her powers secret from everyone but the Inquisitor fearing persecution.

However one of the PC a Volg Hive Scum Assassin keeps trying to out me, for instance during our mission briefing I asked how psykers were treat on the planet we were heading for, he said his pc was making a note that I asked about psykers. Out of game when I asked why his character would make a note considering none of the others did, he said it was because his character been from Volg hive notes everything down that seems out of character, I responded to his reasoning with a good enough reason that the other pc agree'd with me.

It seems he's doing everything he can to out me making it much a harder than it needs to be. Another example was we were in a chapel and I preformed a psyniscience test and descovered a trap door where our target was, i roleplayed it that my character had found it by chance, baring in mind it was hidden and was only covered in a cloth. He again questioned how I found it and claimed his character looked at me as though he didnt believe me

It seems whenever I use a psychic power which produces a result and believe me I'm not the one always finding the hidden passage way so to speak he claims his character is "looking at me "inquisitively" or raising an eye brow when I suggest something to walking off alone to talk to someone who only I know is another psyker and following me. Its becoming impossible to roleplay it anymore as i fear in the next couple of sessions or so he's going to ask the question whilst in character and cause trouble for my character.

I'm not saying that I role play the character perfectly, another player asked how i managed to make an impossible shot after I'd killed a ganger using unnatural aim but the fact that I use my powers sparingly and only when necessary it's really starting to piss me off.

So I just wanted to find out what you guys would do. ATM the Gm is letting it slide as it is his nature and apart of his back story but I personally feel he's going to far with my character and only really targeting my character, but its making it hard for me and I wondered why you all thought and how I should deal with the person?

yes I have, last night after our session I asked him to stop questioning my actions when I have blatantly rp'ed it so that no one can tell and only when its obvious that I may have psychic powers (Im not asking him to stop playing his character but to question me when a wound mysteriously heals, not when I use a power to find a door I happened top stumble across). He said he would play his character how he wants because questioning is in his players nature

Obligatory question: Have you talked to the PLAYER about how uncomfortable you are with what you feel is his use of metagaming?

yes I have, last night after our session I asked him to stop questioning my actions when I have blatantly rp'ed it so that no one can tell and only when its obvious that I may have psychic powers (Im not asking him to stop playing his character but to question if a wound mysteriously heals, not when I use a power to find a door I happened top stumble across). He said he would play his character how he wants because questioning is in his players nature.

Im going to c/p this into my op

You should do what your character would do if someone whom they had no real attachment to started poking around a deadly secret. Find an oppertune time in game, ie assasin is wounded and fighting H2H, try to (help) with unnatural aim to make sure the right person gets shot. He seems determined to force you character into a corner, a him or me situation. Do this until he changes tacts or runs out of FP's. He should understand since he seems to be all about playing in character no matter who else gets annoyed.

It can be difficult for the best of gamers to keep ICly info and OOCly info strictly separated in the mind. Even some of the best RPers I've known are prone to fits of meta-gaming. I feel the best solution is: if something is a secret IC, keep it a secret OOC too . Maybe this other player finds your OOC "flaunting" of your character's "secret" psyker power to be more than he/she can handle. (i.e. you talk about using Psyker Powers aloud in front of the other Players, make your rolls publicly, etc...) I know that a good RPer SHOULD be able to "turn the switch" between OOC and IC, but you might be making it more difficult for them. (I.e. you are giving him a -30 penalty to his RPing roll, turning him into a ******... ) Since the other Players already know your Character's "secret", try to downplay it OOC as much as possible. Sit close to the GM and pass him notes or whisper what your going to do instead of yelling from the end of the room: " NOW I WILL USE MY SECRET PSYKER POWER!!! NO ONE KNOWS THAT MY CHARACTER HAS THIS POWER!!!" "IGNORE ME !!! " . The ICly Characters ARE working for the Inquisition and that makes them a paranoid and untrustworthy lot who keep a close eye on their Cellmates. Both Sanctioned Psykers and Unsanctioned Witches are capable of bending the laws of reality using the Warp. In the Superstitious 40Kverse, I think it's "okay" for the Assassin to have a "hunch" about your character. Maybe it's IC instinct, goosebumps his character gets when your character uses the Power. Perhaps the Assassin would be obsessively hounding one of the other PC's if he had some "suspicions" or "hunch" about them (i.e. knew something OOC) I think if your character can't "come out of the closet" as a Gay Psyker....no wait, I mean as just a Psyker....(sorry) , then you're going to need to develop some ICly and OOCly tactics to provide a "smoke screen" of sorts against the other PCs finding out . But seriously: the Gay thing: What if you had announced to the Player Group OOCly that your character is secretly "Gay", then one Player decided his character has "Gaydar" and tries to find out your ICly secret IC. This scenario would make for a bit of "fun" and a kind of "joke" in which to liven up a rather HEAVY, SERIOUS, GRIMDARK game. Perhaps you should try to have some fun with the Assassin's Player, instead of letting it get to you. It is only a game after all... It just happens to be the BEST GAME EVER !!!

As a Question to you how do you hide your sanctioning brand? It's delibrately obvious for a reason, normally the Aquilla branded into the forhead. So from a fluff point of view if your sanctioned the other players and most of the Imperiam who know anything about psykers, for example Imperial Guardsman, Clerics and Tech-priests are classes would have some knowledge, infact anyone with Common Lore Imperium would know without a roll that you have been Sanctioned.

Now if your playing a rogue pysker from the radicals handbook, different story. I can see your frustration, but it could be worse it could be a Tech-priest with an Auspex, and yes with the good roll it can tell if your a Psyker. I would suggest giving the other player a good dose of paranoia, take notes on every action he takes, as a character he has been taking notes on you, something that is part of his back history, following your character about, and snooping into your affairs, that is his progative, but if he is singling you out of the group that is less character background and more pursecution. So do to him everything that he's been doing to you, and as a chacter you can justify it too, his background means he notes things down but he's paying you special attention, so time to pay it back as that is out of character for him. Then report your findings about his corrupt nature to your inquisitor.

Or there is the less stealthy and sneaky way, there is the brick in the face approach. Next time you go off to met with someone make sure he follows you, try to 'lose' him, make it so he has to try to follow, then get him alone in an alley somewhere and hit him with "Fear Aura" or some other tasty low end power, rake is body into a dustbin, kill him if you have to, make him burn those fate points. When you re-emerge to rejoin your cell when he doesn't come back, simply state that it's a dangerous world, you knew where you were going. This method works even better if you can either get the rest of the group to leave the room or you the other player and the ST(StoryTeller(I prefer storyteller to games master)) into another room, that way the other players are none the wiser too.

PLEASE NOTE: My joking in the previous post was intended to lighten your mood, not to offend anyone. That being said:

Valdek makes some very good points. 40K is a dog-eat-dog world and whether or not your character is Sanctioned would make a big difference. If the Assassin is messing with your Character, then it is entirely appropriate to mess with his. If your Character being "outed" as a Psyker means certain death, or worse, Compromises the Mission, then let the Hunter become the Hunted. Assuming your Character has contact with your Inquisitor, perhaps the Inquisitor can be convinced to tell the Assassin to "back off". If the Assassin is seriously going to Compromise the Mission, then it is your Character's Duty to neutralize the Threat he poses and it would be entirely justified.

Well, if my character was set up in a manner like yours where you're keeping your power a secret and believe everyone else is going to kill you or what not if they find out... *shrug* Answer is simple: kill him first. He is trying to get you killed, after all, and last I checked, as so eloquently said on Firefly: "If someone ever tries to kill you, you try to kill them right back."

It's up to you how you want to accomplish this in the end... I mean, you could keep your powers a secret still. If you were a telekinetic and he was hanging off a wall, just a little tug/push and no more problem. Pyrokinetic? No problem if you find yourself in a burning building... nobody will question a smoky charred corpse in a burnt building. Just put on your most innocent face and be all "I saw the ceiling collapse... *fake tears here* but I couldn't get to him in time *fake crying* ... and that's if you want to keep your power a secret.

If you'd rather reveal your power in a manner that makes a statement... bait him into an argument, let him get pissy in a manner that nobody else will support him for, taunt him into doing something, and when he does, dump a half-dozen 1d10+whatever bolts into his skull, and the only thing your party members will be thinking while they're mopping his grey matter off the walls later is "Holy crap, I'm happy I didn't piss that guy off." Works pretty well with fire bolt too, but a bit stinkier.

Also, holocaust is perfect for the "I'm sorry about starting the fight. Hug?" ambush.

Is his characters treating the others with the same suspicion ?

If not, talk to him about that. Not to lessen the suspicion on your character, but to get him to play consistently and bring the suspicion on the others up to the same level.

Thank you for the replies guys, they've been both helpful and entertaining.

I will admit to considering the dog eat dog approach, after one point (our mission is on a hive world) he was looking over a ledge that dropped into darkness, i considered using spasm on him but I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt in the hope he would stop.

I don't think it would have been so bad if he'd had noticed the occasion when I was nearly possessed after rolling a 9 followed by a 97 followed by a 94 but it seems mostly to be at the times when no one but another psyker may notice them.

@Grinnenstadt: I wasn't offended at what you wrote and found it quite funny

@Valdek, I hadn't thought the Sanctioning Brand would have been put on the forehead, on my character its on her leg so she can easily hide it from the others.

I had always planned to reveal my powers at some point but his actions are making it hard to want to reveal them and one of the other PC's once joked that I must be a psyker, reading the cards because I kept beating her at cards and taking her not -so-hard earned gelt (which I was using my powers), but that doesn't bother me like he does

I agree with other posters that it sounds like this player has trouble separating IC from OOC. It's unfortunate, but it does happen.

In my experience, a character "keeping secrets" is one of the more common causes for this sort of behaviour. The player wants to know everything IC so he can make the most of party resources, or just because he's curious or something.

You've tried talking to him, which is good. He doesn't seem to be open to changing his behaviour though, which is unfortunate. What's even more unfortunate, however, is that continuing to push him to stop is likely to erode the overall enjoyment of the game, not only for you but for everyone. Even if the other players understand and respect your character concept, I'm sure they're getting tired of you and he squaring off about it.

You could go the violent route and try to "kill him first," but if I know anything about players like this, doing so will only ruin the game. If your first attempt to kill him doesn't work, he'll respond in kind. Trying even harder to out your character, openly questioning her about all the "coincidences" and more likely than not outright trying to kill her back. Any semblance of party unity will be forever shattered.

Even if your first attempt to kill him does work, he'll make another character who will be (a) equally prone to metagaming, thus holding a grudge against your character even though they just met and (b) mechanically twinked to ruin your character's life.

In short, you'll probably ruin the entire game, for everyone.

What I would suggest is trying to find an opportune in-game moment for your character to reveal the truth to the rest of the party. Maybe in a desperate combat situation your character lashes out with psionics to save another character's life (maybe even this player.) Afterwards, she can no longer deny that she's a psyker, so she has to confide in them. This is a good opportunity for a role-playing scene in and of itself, and a chance for your character to actually grow and mature instead of just playing the same trope over and over. Once the party knows, this player will hopefully back off, and may even help you keep your secret from NPCs and such (hopefully.) At the very least he hopefully won't be so gung-ho to out you. You can still play the "character with a secret" when interacting with NPCs, and he can rest satisfied that his character knows your dark secret and can therefore hopefully begin to trust you.

In future games with this player, I would suggest discussing any "secret" aspects of your character with the GM in advance. See if you can arrange to have HIM roll dice for your secret powers, so it looks like the GM is up to something rather than you hiding something.

To be honest I'm just waiting for 'that' moment to reveal my powers. I was going to use them when we were fleeing from a unknown creature casting bio lightening to stall it but the GM interveined before I could use the power, though I've gone 4 ranks with my power hidden, maybe its about time, using constrict on him the next time he pisses me off might be interesting (yes, i'm a biomancer)

Maverick91 said:

As annoying as all this metagaming is to you, trust me when I say that he's unlikely to be a mature enough player to take PvP action as anything but an affront to HIM, not his character, and will likely act accordingly (see a few posts above). Constricting him will get you killed, if you don't kill him. Your inquisitor's blessing is the only thing that can outright keep another acolyte in line regarding someone suddenly revealing the ability to manipulate the warp (without visual sanctioning mark).

Don't fight ******* behavior with ******* behavior. At least, not without warning him first, player to player. "Look, you want to play the inquisitive person, which is fine. Be inquisitive. Being inquisitive about psykers, especially those who might be hiding their nature, is dangerous business. Being SOLELY inquisitive about psykers, as I've percieved you to be, is extremely dangerous. I don't want to kill your character. I hope that you don't want to kill mine. I'd rather us work this out amicably, metagaming or no metagaming, than tear this group apart due to petty squabbling."

Here's how I would approach the situation if I were you. First you said you were a Biomancer. I would take the Seal Wounds power, if you don't already have it talk to your GM before game or after game privately and ask to switch out a power for Seal Wounds. Next take all the medicae skills you can if you don't already have them. If your not on that tree buy them as an elite advance. Now after a heavy battle where everyone takes alot of wounds go through each character in turn making sure the Assassin is the last person. Use medicae to treat their wounds and announce openly in OOC that your gonna use Seal Wounds. Do this for every character except the Assassin. Only use medicae on him. If the player asks OOC why you didn't use Seal Wounds on his character innocently reply that his character makes your character nervous with the constant spying and such. If his character makes a comment on the fact that the others seem to be healed better than him you innocently remark you don't understand why when you use the same medkit on them as you did on him. As long as he keeps up his behavior of always spying on your character keep this up. Eventually even the most hard headed person will either give up his incessant spying or his character will end up dead and no fault to your character he just makes her nervous. Turn the tables on him this way. Eventually in turn reveal your abilities secretly to the other characters and leave the assassin "in the dark" so to speak. Make sure your character tells the other character to not let the Assassin know about your psyker abilities because he reminds you of people who would kill you for having Emporer bestowed gifts. This way if he wants to play the ****** then he'll reap the consequences of his actions.

Oh and by the way how can his character be both a Scum and an Assassin?? Those are two different careers and as far as I've known and played there is no multiclassing in DH. Either he is a Scum or he's an Assassin.

I once played in a great campaign (Heavy Gear) where the GM irregularly 'cut' to the POV of our enemies, and sometimes asked us to make decisions for our enemies. The tempation to metagame was certainly there, and we had fun arguing over where to draw the line. From your account your friend has crossed that line.

When faced with metagamers an effective response is pretty much to ignore them IC. If you think someone is asking your character a question or behaving in such as way as to be metagaming then just ignore that action IC - but dont forget to 'praise' them when the stop metgaming and act IC - only that praise will get them to effectively change their style.

So if they ask you a question IC and you think they are metgaming, just ignore it. Ignore it when the character asks yours if they are deliberately ignoring them. If the /player/ asks you why your character is ignoring theirs politely tell them. The player and their alter-ego (character) need a response from you, just dont give them one.

I will also say it again - reward them if their behaviour changes.

If you don't like that approach - an alternative would be to talk to your GM and make your character's 'problem' their character's problem. You have a secret to keep, tell your Inquisitor about it and ask for discretion, and then ask that they assign someone to help cover up that secret...

Yet another approach to roleplaying secrets in general is simply say to everyone in the group 'My character has secret 'X' but they will be keeping the fact secret until they decide otherwise'. From then on you can roleplay your 'secret' without having to pass a single note to the GM and it won't get in anyone's face. In experience this has been the best way to have secrets - tell the group and get them to play along - after all is it your character who has the secret, or is it you? If the answer is 'both' then maybe you are metagaming as well ;-)

Is there an In-Character way of setting him up to make him look like a psyker?.

Incidentally what actually would the effect of your being outed as a psyker. I mean your Inquisitor already knows?

Shibby1431 said:

He's taken the scum career path but his scum masquerades as a assassin, he reasoning is that the assassin class isnt friendly enough, i should have addressed that point sooner.

As to the medicae bit, i don't have the medicae skill but do have seal woulds,

Visitor Q said:

If she is revealed as a psyker it really depends who, she still can't trust that she wont be persecuted because of her powers and its more a mental thing. The Inquisitor knows because he's also a psyker though he hasn't displayed any abilities openly, even though he's talked to her about her abilities (right after our briefing) he promised to keep secret safe from the team until she was ready to reveal it for herself

I have thought about setting him up to look like a psyker

@Insequential: I would have quoted you but my pc wont let me :/. My character does ignoure him for the most part as she shes him as childish and petty, when his character grows up a bit and stops meta-gaming my character is more than happy to treat him like the others.

But we're having a session on saturday instead of the normal monday night so we'll see what he's like then after I've had a chance to talk to both him and the gm about it.

Shibby1431 said:

He's taken the scum career path but his scum masquerades as a assassin, he reasoning is that the assassin class isnt friendly enough, i should have addressed that point sooner.

As to the medicae bit, i don't have the medicae skill but do have seal woulds,

Visitor Q said:

If she is revealed as a psyker it really depends who, she still can't trust that she wont be persecuted because of her powers and its more a mental thing. The Inquisitor knows because he's also a psyker though he hasn't displayed any abilities openly, even though he's talked to her about her abilities (right after our briefing) he promised to keep secret safe from the team until she was ready to reveal it for herself

I have thought about setting him up to look like a psyker but its seems to much effort and could backfire when i reveal my powers

@Insequential: I would have quoted you but my pc wont let me :/. My character does ignoure him for the most part as she shes him as childish and petty, when his character grows up a bit and stops meta-gaming my character is more than happy to treat him like the others.

But we're having a session on saturday instead of the normal monday night so we'll see what he's like then after I've had a chance to talk to both him and the gm about it.

Speak to your GM and tell him it is becoming a problem to the point that it is ruining your enjoyment of the game. The PC in question has plenty of other people he could be obsessing on and you feel his focus on your character is a OOC knowledge violation. Request that the GM intercede, or - if he won't do that - as him to fabricate a scenario in the next adventure where you can dramatically reveal your psykic ability.

I can certainly understand your frustration, it is even worse when you are the GM and players use ooc knowledge to steal your secrets. For example, in my Star Wars game I'd had the PCs hearing about a character named Darca Nyl, whom everyone they encountered (usually in remote, off the beaten path places) believed to be a Jedi. I built up some curiosity about him over the course of a month or two - even having Jedi Master Fay comment that she had met the man and he was one of the best Jedi she knew.

This was, of course, a settup for them eventually running into him in the midst of an adventure and coordinating efforts to push back a Seperatist group which had assaulted a trading colony. At the end of the successful mission I had them all invited by the town's governor to his home for dinner and when they finally encountered Darca face to face, I revealed to them that, despite carrying a lightsaber and calling himself a Jedi, he was - in fact - no more force sensitive than your average human. This was supposed to be a big, "wow, the Jedi we've been hearing so much about and who has succeeded helping so many people, was never a force user!?" moment ... but instead my players go- "huh". Turns out one of the players had decided to go online and look up the character, read about his history, and not only discovered the truth, but then told the other players as well. So the big moment - where their characters could have really been shocked and left to question some of their ideas about what made a Jedi - fell flat on its face. Talk about a let down.

I used to have a player like the one you're talking about, who liked to out other character's secrets just for the fun of it - actually it was a power thing for him, made him feel strong to out the other players - and, I saw that hamper the fun of many a player ... unfortunately, at that time, I was too inexperienced of a GM to know how to handle it. These days I would take the Player aside and say, "Hey, X feels you are trying to out her character using ooc info, and I have seen you doing just that. Back off, or I will start cutting your xp rewards to reflect the fact that you aren't playing in character. You want to play the paranoid digger, great, focus on other people as well, then, and let off on her for a bit." And, if he tried to throw the "That's just how I play my character" line in my face I'd say, "fine, but until I'm satisfied you aren't using ooc knowledge to inform your character's actions, he won't be receiving any xp for missions"

Maverick91 said:

Start doing it back.

But in the grimmest way possible, that makes his character look like a jerk, 'seeing' things that are as paper-thin as his proof in the same way that he has.

I recommend that you start being suspicious every time he looks at children, and start mentally portraying him as the worst kind of pervert and molester as possible. Simply view every interaction with children in the worst possible and most suspicious light. When he searches a church, point out that he's spending a lot of time checking the cherub statues et cetera.

Yes: I am a bastard. But if he's trying to screw you over and basically fabricate 'evidence' and doesn't care what you think, then turn-about is fair play.

Also: Your Inquisitor knows. How about you talk to the GM and have him reveal it to the others. What are they going to do? Kill you? After the Emperor himself has ok'ed you?! And the Inquisitor, too?!

Man that situation really sucks. It says more about the other player than it does about his character. I don't have much to add that everyone else hasn't said already, but I will say that an out of character solution is probably best, because it sounds like he gets his kicks from spoiling other peoples fun.

You need to talk to the player, and the GM at the start of the session this saturday, and make it clear to the GM that you want it resolved before you start playing. Many gamers avoid confrontation like the plague, but you really need to stick to this unless you want the behaviour to continue. If the GM doesn't help out ask him if he thinks it's okay for you to read the adventure before playing it then, because if it's okay to use OOC information then where does he draw the line?.

Please let us know how it goes.

Z

Siranui said:

OBJECTION!

Sorry, just needed to say that.

Basically, I approve. Siranui's solution's a bit extreme, but if nothing else works...Don't let your gaming fun be ruined by someone who obviously doesn't care about you, if he doesn't listen. If talking to him / to the Gm solves the case, then just be happy and don't worry

Siranui said:

I don't think there would be any serious consequences for the character revealing her status as a psyker. The issue is mostly about how the player is trying to use this "secret" as a role-playing hook, but the other player's incessant desire to have his character know everything he knows is driving the OP up the wall.

***

Some players try to avoid metagaming by ensuring their character knows everything they do. For them, it's easier if they don't have to draw any mental lines. Unfortunately, sometimes their desire to establish and maintain this system leads them to metagaming anyway. Anything the player figures out, the character needs to figure out too, ASAP.

The fact that this behaviour is motivated by a sincere desire to role-play properly (by not knowing anything OOC that he doesn't know IC) is probably the most annoying thing about it, but unless you can think of a way to encourage and reward the effort of drawing mental lines instead, it's a hard cycle to break. The "ignore inappropriate questions" tack is the only one I can think of that has a shot at working, and obviously it carries some risks, too.

Here's a curious little anecdote from our games:

We have a similar player. He's not quite so antagonistic about it as it sounds like this player is, but his characters certainly have a way of "recognizing" monsters the player is familiar with, even if they're uncommon and the character may never have seen one, for example. Recently, we played a game with a new person who had never role-played before. Along the way, discussion turned to metagaming and defining that concept for the newbie, and our player was one of the more enthusiastic in teaching the concept. He would point out ways in which "someone" might metagame inadvertently as we played. Funny thing was, as he explained the issues to the newbie, his own behaviour began to alter away from such things. Perhaps explaining it to someone else made him more self-conscious about it. It remains to be seen if this will amount to a permanent change, but it was certainly an interesting process to watch from behind the DM's screen.

If you can find a way to angle off-game discussion with the group towards the concept of metagaming and "what makes a good role-player" you might be able to get this guy to change his tune, little by little. I would stay away from any examples drawn from recent memory, though. Keep it to generic conversation and let him draw his own parallels. If nothing else, you might coax a little explanation from him about what HE considers metagaming, and that might offer insight into what exactly he thinks he's doing with this character.

i would suggest using the rules as that's what they're for - if the player from volg is always suspicious then they probably should have scrutiny or get it as an elite advance - if your char is trying to keep a secret and has already done so for a long time they should probably have deceive or get it as an elite advance - then next time your char lies to his char roll an opposed deceive scrutiny check - if you win he doesn't know your lying and possibly thinks your telling the absolute truth, if you lose his char knows your lying, in which case he knows his suspicion is justified

this can have hilarious effects - recently IC an arbitrator lied to an inquisitor and although they were both skilled in the respective skills the inquisitor failed his check so believed the arbitrator

Steve-O said:

Although some players just like to be jerks. That seems to be more of the case in this situation. If the player has confided that he's basically just being a jerk, I say do it right back in the aformentioned manner. Heck: Have a huddle with other players before the game and get them in on the action. Start making double-entendres out of everything he says...