After reading a blog about gaming, with some funny mentions of Fantasy Flight in general, I was wondering how common this really is? Do you find that many players arn't reading the rulebooks? I know this is a problem with my particular gaming group, where I feel most times like I'm the only one who's taken the time to sit down with the rules. Even our GM often times doesn't know the rules required to mitigate a situation, and despite that time and again I've told him the correct rules needed, he refuses to belive me, only to spend 20 minutes looking up what he should already know and what I've already told him. I don't mean to rant, I'm just curious as to how common this is. I've posted the link to the blog in question below. It's a good read.

gamerreborn.blogspot.com/

[Yes some people don't read the rules and others just skim them, including GMs. In my opinion the GM should know the rules very well, with the flexibility to improvise when necessary. Personally I like to read up on the rules, especially in games like Deathwatch that is relatively complex. Even then I don't know every rule 100% and don't expect the GM to either. Hopefully between us we can muddle through and locate any rules we're unsure of with a minimum of time wasted.

On the other hand, I don't expect every player to read the entire rules. Some players I know aren't interested in the mechanics and just want to roleplay. Others don't have a copy of the rules. As such, they can only pick up the rules as they come up and refer to the GMs knowledge. If you aren't willing to master the rules, you can't really be a games master.

Delacross said:

Don't correct your GM too often though. Only correct him if it's important enough. Even if you're right, it's bound to get on the nerves of a lot of GMs. Accept it as a fact of life and roll with it. You can tell the guys after the session about some minor blunders ("Oh, btw, horde damage for Unrelenting Devastation is +1d5 after the latest errata.") Between sessions the GM will have the time to read up.

Too much correction only disrupts flow of play and distracts from the story. Just consider this: a few more gaming sessions and the biggest blunders will all have been cleared up.

Alex

Unless the GM doesn't listen, Alex. Then it becomes a distraction and a problem. When the rules say one thing but the GM ignores it to the party's detriment, it usually doesn't make too many people happy.

I'm generally the "rules lawyer" of the group since I'll look into rules more closely than the others. One friend will go over the rules carefully if he's running the game. Beyond that, most people just skim or even ignore the rules. That isn't so bad when playing (though things go more smoothly when everyone knows what's going on), but it's an annoying trait in a GM.

I never go out of my way to correct our GM, unless he asks for a clarification. But often times he will stop the game to look up a rule that I know off hand. If I offer the answer he is looking for, he insists that he needs to see it for himself. On each occasion I had been giving him the correct answer, he just doesn't seem to want to trust me, for lack of a better way of saying it. I could see if I was often wrong in my interpetations, but each time he says something akin to "Wow you're right, space marines can do that. Despite the fact that he has been an avid Space Wolf player for the past 20 years, he always seems surprised by the things a space marine is able to acomplish by Deathwatch standards.

Delacross said:

I'm betting you haven't had any clearly bad GM calls then. As an example of some of the stuff I've seen (altered to fit the DW game instead so we're all on the same page)...

Player: So the Righteous Fury with my Power Fist brings down the Tyranid Warrior. Huzzah!

GM: Yes, it finally falls. But it has the Toxic Quality so you'll take some more damage... *rolls dice*

Player: Wait, Toxic doesn't work that way. It only-

GM: Take 9 more damage to the left leg. Based on the Critical Damage you've already taken... *checks Critical Damage Table* ...the lower part of your left leg is ripped off. Make a Toughness Test to keep from dying from the shock of the injury.

Player: ...

I have a group that are all really into the idea of uber ass kickin supermen so most of em were quite into reading the books. We also have 3 to 4 copies on the table at any one time. The DW book itself is not brilliantly laid out and as a GM of many games I find it difficult to keep all the rules in my head. I actually missed quite a few last night that could have effected the game, but my players were into it so I kept calm and carryed on.

I am finding as the game goes on the group are more and more into it and are begining to want to borrow copies of the book to do research. If a game like this is to run as a long campaign the players will need to invest some time into it to get the most out of it, im talking about the progression system really, they need to know what is available to their characters.

And hell if you cant find a rule or are arguing about something(as I had last night) the fudge it so the game dosent slow or make a GM's ruling. remember we are always right!!!!

The emperor Protects

I generally don't have a problem with my players not reading the rules. My problem is getting half of them to read up on the fluff so that they can get a feel for how Space Marines think and behave.

from my perspective GM who dont know rules or cannot improvise while keeping common sense and trust of his players is poor GM, one that stop session for 20 minutes to look for some missing rules should change role from GM to player.

I think the rules are important if only for consistency. You don't want what you did last session to become impossible today on a whim of the GM. (One friend of mine has a really bad habit of being inconsistent with his rulings.)

Another major problem is that as a rules-savvy player myself (when I play) it burns me that because the GM doesn't know their rules, half my Talents become useless - because the rule they "modify" to my benefit never comes up/is ignored.

But as to my position on players: I don't expect players to know everything, but they should know the most common rules pertaiing to their characters. (I tell people I play with: if you want to play a character with a lot of cool psecial abilities, be prepared to be familiar with how those work.)

generally though, we have a pretty good an easy collaboration between players and GM. If an issue of rules arbitration comes up, we talk about it, we listen to those who seem to have the best grasp of the rules at that moment. Then, the GM makes a ruling and play continues. We look it up later when we have time and we learn.