Would an played Epic Battle event (curently next to my plot card) prevent me from using Bear Island since it has no House Affiliation?

My first instinct is "yes," since technically, the event card is in a moribund state (and thus "in play") while next to your plot card. However, the argument for that is very technical. There is a possibility that it would be better to think of the Epic event more like an Agenda (and thus "not in play") when it is near your plot card, waiting for the Epic Phase.

I'd suggest sending this one to FFG since no matter which way you go, it's going to feel like an arbitrary decidion.

OK, so I finaly got reply from Nate:

No, the card is not in play, and not interacting with Bear Island's text.

Nate French
Senior Game Designer
Fantasy Flight Games

Rozy said:

I didn't think events had a house affiliation even if they were "House X only" because they lacked a shield in the upper right hand corner. From the FAQ:

(4.1) House Affiliation The House affiliation of a card is defined as which of the Great Houses the card belongs to. This is identified by the card's House Shield located in the upper right hand corner of the card. House affiliations are specifically: Stark, Baratheon, Lannister, Greyjoy, Targaryen, or Martell.
Some cards (such as neutrals) have no House affiliation.

Maester_LUke said:

Yeah, but Bear Island read "if every card you control has the HS affiliation".

So I can play 2 x Battle of Ruby Ford the same phase or is the event considered to be in dead pile?

Maester_LUke said:

Rogue30 said:

Of course, the ruling creates problems either way because Deathbound doesn't kick in when cards go from one out-of-play area to another. So doesn't that mean Battle of the Ruby Ford would do to the discard pile instead of the dead pile after being played?

I still think the "extended moribund state" explanation, which would mean the Epic events screw up Bear Island, is the better explanation, but Nate has said otherwise....

Didnt want to make a new thread so heres another Bear Island question.

If you play wintertime reserves does that stop you from triggering bear island, i think yes because it is a neutral event card that would become a neutral character but i could be wrong

jack merridew said:

Yes, I would think so. I think you only need to look at whether the card has the House Stark affiliation. Since it doesn't, it should stop Bear Island.

Yeah, unlike the Epic cards, Wintertime Reserves says pretty clearly that it is "put into play" so Bear Island will see.

Just for my own sanity if I ever get Battle of Ruby Ford -

It appears to me that this Epic Battle was made unique for the purposes of limiting a player from using it in more than one round of game play unless of course the player can remove it from the Dead pile. I mean, you either go all out using it in one round or you just add more than one copy to your deck just so you can increase the chance it appears in your draw.

To me, if the designers intended it to be limited as a one time use, it makes multiple copies drawn wasted cards. Of course if the first time you play it, it is canceled, the other copies would become available for use later or after that copy is canceled.

Based on what I think designer's intent was by making it unique, I'm thinking that they meant for it only to be used once, even after that ruling. It's just that after that ruling, there is now a loophole.

Bomb said:

Ultimately, my guess would be that the "place by your plot card" bit was supposed to act as a reminder that the Epic phase was coming up that round - something that could be easy to forget if you put the event in the discard/dead pile after you played it in the Plot phase. It's not until much later that people start asking questions like "is it in play?" and "if it's not in play, is it considered to be in your discard/dead pile, or just by your plot?" Even with play testing, you can see where these kinds of questions might not come up (because they're too busy looking at the main mechanic of adding in the Epic phase to begin with!).

At some point, Nate might extend the ruling to say "not in play, and considered to be in the discard/dead pile for other purposes" - which would then beg the question "if I have an effect that can move a card from my dead pile to my hand, can I grab that Epic Battle event while it is by the plot card?" So I hope that they consider it carefully before closing the loophole.

Of course, you also bring up the great point that the stars have to pretty much align in order for the loophole to be used - starting with putting multiples of Battle of the Ruby Ford in your deck to begin with!

Right on ktom. That's what I mean!

The combination of it being Unique and Deathbound appears to be intent on making it a usable one time event per player. If they stuck "Limit 1 per deck." on the card, then we wouldn't have any loophole! However it's clear they want this card to be available to having 3 copies of it in one deck to increase it's frequency.

(4.7) Deathbound
Cards with the "deathbound" keyword are
only placed in the dead pile when they would
otherwise be placed in the discard pile from
play.
Event cards that have the deathbound keyword
are placed in the dead pile only after being
played from hand.

I'm thinking that The Battle of Ruby Ford is considered "dead" upon being played from your hand even though it hasn't hit the dead pile yet. I understand it's a special event that stays out for all to see next to your revealed plot card, but at least it would seal the loophole that I don't think was meant to be open.

Otherwise I'm thinking a temporary house rule should apply for this special case only if you don't want it to ever be abused. The small chance of having 3 additional challenges during Dominance with 2 claim could be way over powered if you happen to have in your hand all 3 copies of this Epic Battle and you happen to have the characters to pull this off. Otherwise I don't think the designers would make this a Unique Deathbound event, right?

Bomb said:

With characters who don't kneel to attack (or that you can stand) or Syrio Forel, it's entirely possible to have the characters to pull it off. As for getting the 3 copies of the event, House Stark now has Widow's Watch and Rickon Stark to get #2 and #3 after playing #1. If it allowed only the chance to try again if the event was cancelled, I'd be OK with that, but if it allows you to play all 3, it's just way over the top.