Just so we can end the debate in my gaming group once and for all
1- My pick
When I use Magister Illyrio in a challenge, I kneel him for the challenge AND use is abilities (since I kneel him)
2- Their pick
You kneel him for challenge OR you kneel him for his abilities. You cannot do both.
And the winner is...
Depends on how the card is written (I don't have it in front of me and AGoT Dabbler doesn't seem to have it loaded yet). If it says he can trigger his ability after he kneels, then it wouldn't matter how he got knelt, as long as he got knelt. "Wicked Seductress" out of Baratheon works this way. Soon as she kneels, she can choose to kneel an eligible target.
With this game, it always comes down to details. It all depends on how his ability is written.
Challenge: Kneel Magister Illyrio to choose an opponent and name a challenge type. That opponent must pay you 1 gold from his or her gold pool each time he or she initiates a challenge of this type.
They are right. The Challenges printed at the start of his ability means it requires a standard action to use it. You cannot declare a framework action and a standard action at the same time.
Also, it says "Kneel watizname to..." which means you need to specifically kneel him to use his ability. Contrast this with Wicked Seductress and the difference is clear. Otherwise Maya Seaworth will never kneel to attack, and standing Renly Baratheon with Stormlands Fiefdoms will reduce the cost of my next Bara card.
I'm curious how you got to your interpretation.
Makiavel said:
Challenge: Kneel Magister Illyrio to choose an opponent and name a challenge type. That opponent must pay you 1 gold from his or her gold pool each time he or she initiates a challenge of this type.
OK. That one is worded differently than the seductress example I gave. We've always played this Illyrio card according to your number 2 option above. Of course, we could be wrong on that.
Probably best to see if anyone else chimes in on this one with their interpretation. If Ktom shows up, I'm sure he will give you the detailed answer as he usually does.
Thanks 1andonlime, in this case my mistake was to put everything in the same "box" (framework and player action).
maybe changing your gaming group will help 
ASoIaFfan said: