I'm just wondering.... Ascension and Deathwatch both go to 49,999 XP, I guess Black Crusade will also go that far from the start because of the Chaos Space Marines. When will Rogue Trader get the 3 missing ranks?

Personally, I rather hope it doesn't. Ascension is just silly.

Black Crusade's Space Marines advance at the same rate as the other heretics.

I could write volumes on my problems with Ascension. I hope that this doesn't happen if all we are going to get is our PCs "ascending to a higher purpose" again.

The problem with expanding RT is that the players are already Rogue Traders. There's no real formal way to advance to that to a "better" form of Rogue Trader. Although it might happen, I'm not sure what direction that it might go.

How about we just get a few more ranks, without any epic level stuff, to bring Rogue Trader PCs up to the same max xp as the other games ?

Errant said:

And how far is that probably going to be?

numb3rc said:

Bilateralrope said:

I would be completely fine with just a few ranks even though I have no idea how that would work out balance-wise. Ascension careers get special abilities and seemingly still have some problems competing with Space Marines. Concerning what a Rogue Trader could become two ideas of mine would be fleet admiral and lord of a realm, for the other careers it's partly easier, Explorator to Magos, Missionary to Hierophant...

I would like extra ranks to be just what they are.

Extra ranks so you can keep playing the same character for longer.

I dont really need rules just so my guys can play out conqueror or whatever. My RT has a huge army planned already, hell might even be the one RT who starts the (insert appropiate Missionary) Crusade to reclaim the Expanse.

But i dont really need extra rules for that. Just extra ranks focused on command and control of additional forces. Very little stuff that helps themselves and thats it.

I would be happy if they re-wrote every RT career to pu t them at least on par with DH careers as far as combat ability. Then just leave the number of ranks alone.

bobh said:

Well then you hardly need an epic setting anyway.

Nah Id love more organization stuff and such, sure it aint glorious, but money isnt made by squandering it. (Better command skill to order regiments etc. around)

Combat wise, id really love exemplar of iron to make an appearance.......

Organisation is not glorious? What is more glorious then leading armies, conquering worlds and standing at the head of a crusade! I'd rather be a Caesar then the bravest of his Legionairies.

Friedrich van Riebeeck, Navigator Primus, Heart of the Void

van Riebeeck said:

Ahh a like mind.

Nothing better than drawing up a chart showing a unit in its full glory. Well and then looking at the puny rest the other side is actually fielding (or rather trying to field).

van Riebeeck said:

Sounds like a new book!

Warmaster

Roleplay a Commander of an Imperial Crusade and his closest advisers and staff!

numb3rc said:

I think Warmaster would be a BC super book; the Imperium is lord solar

Braddoc said:

Eh, you'd think so. I have read the same fluff that you've seen. However, in some work such as Abnett's, the rank of "Warmaster" is still used for the Commanders of Imperial Crusades. Warmaster Slaydo, Warmaster Macaroth, etc.

Anyways, "Warmaster" has a ring to it that is entirely absent from "Lord Commander Solar."

Yeah, but it sounds waaayyy less glorious

Braddoc said:

Granted. Chaos don't know nuthin' about Imperial glory.

numb3rc said:

I blame it on a lack of Flags and hats and paultrons

Braddoc said:

We got Space marine chests as flags. and Horns on our hats.

Unbeatable.

You dont even dare touch our rhinos.

Voronesh said:

Epaulets.

Check and mate, Chaos.

Spiky pauldrons. With skulls.

Correct that.

A skull for a pauldron.

Cant get more grimdark than that.

Though you really have to like spikes, or you cant join.......

Wear someones face over your pauldron...beats a skull. Looks like they are still screaming. Check and mate.

bobh said:

Spoken like a true Chaos follower.

BTW, when going for a black crusade, the squabbling stops, even if only a little bit.

*Starts beating up nurglings again.*

I'm sorry, Chaos cannot even light a match to compare to Imperial Glory. Ever heard a Chaotic rousing speech? Only when it's made by deceit to fool Imperial Citizens. The Imperium is built on scenes like Aragorn leading the men in a charge on the Black Gates, or Gandalf bringing the Rohirim over the ridge on the dawn of the fifth day. Seriously, my literary wet dream is Tolkien writing for GW...

Anyways, every Imperial person of any note (even basic Carapace!) has pauldrons, Not to mention tassels and, in the case of the glorious Rogue Trader illustrations; PIRATE HATS. Yeah. Check, mate, pillage, plunder and don't give a hoot, drink up me hearties yo ho! Geeze, I got a little swept up by all the glory.

Back to OP:

In my view, if you need more ranks, or plan on going over the final rank 8 from an early point, then open up two Alternate Ranks a player but rather then the usual giving up of a rank in exchange, just slip it in between. So for example my Explorator, at rank three takes Genetor, then upon reaching rank four gains access to the rank 3 Explorator table. Not perfect, but as long as everyone does it within the same 2 ranks the power imbalance won't be much of an issue, I don't think.

BangBangTequila said:

Considering Tolkien is at his best when describing landscape.....or letting people sing. I guess have fun listening to Inquisitors sing for 4 days straight .

(As much as i like him, LOTR and the Hobbit are his only finished work)

Pillage, plunder, slaughter, ritual sacrifice, endless cultists serving ALL your needs, wholesale destruction on a planetary but personal scale. (Yeah Nightlords.....far too nice)

Rousing Speeches? Remember mortal it is a Daemon Prince that wrote your book .

Can we stop the check & mate, my daemon weapon doesnt like wooden blood.

We have come for you!

[Not enough RT RPG, sry if you are my CSM in character fix ]

The great thing about chaos is that every really terrible 80's metal band you didn't want to admit liking, misogynistic behaviour your mother would hit you with a frypan for even thinking about and personal intimacy issues you ever had replaced by an car sized suit of spiky armour. Just all fits right in the one spot! The Imperial alternative is a life of fear, loathing and self abuse, well... rough choice really. Considering anyone remotely well adjusted in 40K had their **** wrecked by cyclonic torpedos for being entirely too normal. There aren't any good choices!

But yes, RT needs more love in terms of taking it up to around the 50k xp mark and a bit more material. Overall 40K as an RPG probably needs to be consolidated into a singular system to allow your acolytes, inquisitors, rogue traders and spess marines play together without having to hammer a square peg into a round hole.

On the other hand, player characters do reach the 'We are really getting too powerful now' moment, where it is often a wiser move to retreat good old comrades and look for new ones. I still regret the fact that we ended an epic 'Vampire Dark Ages' campaign after we crushed Byzantium in the 4th Crusade, but it was a wise move. Firstly, our characters started to think of where they could find some extra antidiluvians when they got peckish, with 5th and 6th generation (yes, through Amaranth) characters walking around, and were overly powerful in a fight, so that the foes we were facing did have to get all the more dangerous as well (and there is a logical end to that). Secondly, how can you top crushing Byzantium and causing the demise of a 4th Generation Cainite? We tried a new Dark Age campaign afterwards in the Low Countries, but after the glory of the first campaign it just did not get off a good start, and switched to mad Garou for some old fashioned heroism and dying for Gaia, which was a fresh breath of air after all the intrigue and powerplay of Vampire. Still, I can recall my character from that campaign at a moments notice.

The classical D&D also gives a good example with its epic levels. The game works well up to level 20, but then, in my opinion, it stops. Theoretically you can go on and on, add specialisations, prestige classes or even become a dragon (Dark Sun anyone?), but a DM has to start throwing ancient dragons and minor godlings at the players as if they were mere canonfodder to give them a bit of a challenge.

In short, however much I like my characters and get attached to them, and however much I agree that it would be a good thing if all the WH40k systems would be easily interchangeable (as I do see the fun of playing an assasin character in RT, to give but a practical example), I am always weary of epic levels. Making players too powerful was one of my main mistakes in the first game I DM'd. Perhaps I am a bit too much influenced by our normal style of play, were a refurbished bit of leather armour is treasured by the players (good old Warhammer RP), but ware of to strong PC's.

FvR