im looking at making a scenario where the King Tigers took on the Russian IS-2 tanks. I use world tank museum tanks when I play Toi (So I have IS-2 models)

So i am looking at making stats for the IS-2, I have done a little research.

Now for the units speed (The IS-2 was ment to be faster than the Tiger I & II) But after some looking around it seems it was round about the same performance.

Armour to me seems like it should be somewhere between the Tiger I and Tiger II although there isnt really much room for movement there.

Firepower, even though it fired a 122mm round, it didnt fire anywhere near the velocity of the 88's of the Tigers,(around the same as the T34) im thinking around a rating of 10 or 11 due the the larger caliber.

Another unit im looking at making stats for is the Ferdiand / Elefant (although the Elefant was the improved model, eg put MGS in the tank so it could deal with infantry)

Anyway I would like to hear other peoples thoughts on stats.

Well the Elephant's speed should be same as the tiger i's the firepower should be the same as the kingtigers. as for the is-2 well it has less armor than a tiger but it's sloped so the same number's as the tiger should be fine as for the main gun 2 things it fired really slow as it was 2 part ammo so i'm thinking a move and fire may not be possible. but the 122 actually has good performance so 12 attack dice would seem okay. also give it the same movement rate of the tiger.

BJaffe01

From the differnt sorces I have been looking at it seems that the armour thickness was a bit greater than the Tiger but not as thick as the kingtiger. (although it is probably a little closer to the tiger so as you say It might be best to use that tigers value as there really inst any room between)

I am still a little reluctant to give firepower 12 as the IS-2 velocity was far less than that of the panther and the tables I have been looking at suggest the panther had greater penatrating power.

Im looking at doing a scenaio which took place during Kursk with the with the monster of a tank destoryer. So it will need to be the fredinand which I will use the firepower valuse from the 88 AT gun as this has the reducded firepower against infantry as the fredinand was not fitted with any MG's at this time.

As for the speed i see the Tiger was up around 24mph where as the Fredinand was around 12mph to 19mph (more or less the same as the KV-1)

Aussie_Digger said:

The explosive charge fired by a IS-2 was powerful enough to take out a Tiger or King Tiger without penetrating their armour ... so the stats you're talking about are a little misleading. The downside of it was a low rate of fire and a low muzzle-velocity which made accurate longrange fire very hard. You might want to try giving it a very powerful attack versus vehicles but with a shorter range than is common for tanks. The anti-infantry attack should be something like the SU-122.

The explosive round from the su 122 was also able to do the same but only at close range and that is a FP of 8 so i thought 10 - 11 would fair due to the higher muzzle velocity from the IS-2 . Not really misleading as The IS 2 had to be close to take advantage of the explosive power, where the tigers and panther could take them out at a longer range

Aussie_Digger said:

The problem here is that the firepower of the Panther in ToI is too low. It should be higher than or at least as high as the Tiger's.

The rate of fire of the IS-2 is lower, but the bang and the effect are higher.

I gave it range 8 and firepower 14. Speed should be 5, not sure. Armour is equivalent to the Tiger, so I gave it 6 plus Thick Armor.

These guesses are based, as always, on Flames of War and ASL stats.

Top end speed of an is-2 is 23mph so a 4 is more accurate. Range of 8 is right firepower 14 is okay. The Panther's gun is probably under powered as is the King Tiger's

BJaffe01

wow 4, its funny because alot of accounts i have read talk about the IS2 being able to out perform the Kingtiger in speed and manover. It may be the case that the panther and kingtigers FP is under valued but we still need the make the FP of the IS2 relative to the other vehicles.

As the velocity of the IS2 was no where near that of the tigers and panther, i was thinking about the FP of 12 that Bill suggested earlier and thought that to be fair but with a range of 6 or 7.

And maybe some ability where in close combat the IS2 can re roll upto 2 black dice, (to take into account the concussive power of the IS2's round at close range.

Also note that there is probably a difference between the 'top speed' on roads and the 'top speed' in difficult terrain. Some tanks may have better ofroad capabilities. Also, the fastest may not be the most manoverable. Thus I would geuss that both you and Bjaffe01 are correct. In game terms, all these factors are integrated into one number 'speed'. The question is then which factors, are most important?

The real big difference between speed 5 and speed 4 in game terms is fire & movement action, which becomes considerable more difficult as speed is reduced.

It would also be fun to include vehicles which have a bonus (in firepower for example) for fire and movement actions, although the IS-2 may not be the best candidate for this job.

Grand Stone many American tanks had gyro stablization devices and by mid 44 and beyond they really made a difference as crews became better with using them. yeah the IS-2 top speed is road but they hade wide tracks,as did all Russian tanks,that made them move well off road better than everybody else. hell they added wider tracks to many of the lend lease tanks they got.

BJaffe01

The M10 effectively has an advantage on fire&movement becuase it has a special ability which is kept regardless. But sadly, the american tank is not what I want for a fire&movement tank. I want a tank close to the tiger in armor, speed of the panther, and with a 8-10 dice attack when doing a fire&movement.

Anyway, it seems like the IS-2 versus King-Tiger scenario could be a nice one

sadly the only American Tank that meets your requirements Grand Stone would be the Pershing. of course the Sabot round also helps.

BJaffe01

Grand Stone said:

Im guessing the Americans were thinking the same during the war