IH pg. 50, under "The Power of Faith":

"The Adeptus Sororitas and certain other blessed individuals are not merely servants of the Emperor; they are embodiments of the purity of His faith. Their faith is of such an intensity and focus that it is more than a mere belief; it is a power in itself, a power that can achieve great and terrible things... While many have faith in the Emperor, only a few have faith of sincerity, purity and, above all, focus that can manifest as miraculous effects."

To the GMs (and Players too):

Would you ever allow a Non-Sororitas PC to take the Pure Faith Talent as an Elite Advance?

Under what circumstances?

(This has been on my mind while reading the recent topics concerning the Adeptus Sororitas and the nature of Faith in 40K.)

Hell, yes. Of course.

I wouldn't allow it as an option for 'normally' zealous characters, and only the ultra-faithful. But I would most certainly allow it, as it seems absurd to restrict the abilities to a single gender of character.

Grinnenstadt said:

Personally I see BoM a bit as Puritans handbook. So I might consider it for a "Sworn Puritan". To compensate for the Radical's toys.

Alex

Grinnenstadt said:

Pure Faith has always been a defining aspect of the AS, and there's an in-universe reason for why TT Clerics can't pull off Acts of Faith, so naturally there exists some scepticism towards the idea of expanding it beyond them. Said in-universe reason is that they simply lack the same amount of dedication, usually following more of a theological/scholarly or even political approach rather than truly "living" their faith, and even in the cases where they truly are convinced they'd be dedicated servants (which certainly exist in large numbers), most still lack the mental discipline and rigid lifestyle of the Sororitas. Lastly, Clerics lack the unity of the Sisterhood. Depending on how you would interpret the exact nature and origins of Pure Faith, one could argue that "faith stacks", and that the monastic isolation of the Sororitas as well as their mutual spiritual support preserves their stern mindset that some would call naive, whereas others would deem it commendable for its purity.

It is perhaps ironic that the priesthood's contact with the general populace may well have a corrupting aspect, be it due to the reverence and adoration with which they are treated (leading to pride and vanity), or because all the suffering and the nasty truth of the real world outside convent walls leaves a lasting impression on the faithful. This theme was briefly touched upon in the Daemonifuge comic, with the fugitive Ephrael Stern witnessing "another side of the Imperial Creed, one which she had not been taught in the safety of the convent", as she wandered the streets, witnessing scenes such as a riot control squad of Adeptus Arbites Enforcers opening fire on unarmed pilgrims trying to gain entrance into the Chapel of Blessed Sebastian on Gathalamor, trampling each other to death on the overcrowded place, or the thousands of homeless citizens begging for food on the streets, slowly withering away as their pleads remain unheard whilst gangs of sadistic criminals roam the streets and prey on the weak, unmolested by Imperial authorities restricting their protections to higher levels of the Hive.

However, there are those men and women whose convictions and faith yet remain steadfast or even grow stronger with each passing day, and who draw a nigh-inhuman strength of will from their beliefs, enabling them to go forth and carry the Emperor's light into the darkest corners of the void, seemingly protected by His divine will until they have served their purpose or perish as martyrs for their cause. Men and women like the revered Sebastian Thor that ended the Age of Apostasy, the simple shepherd's daughter Sabbat who went on to organize a great crusade after receiving a vision of the Emperor, or the common PDF soldier Ivar who became one of the staunchest followers of Saint Celestine after his planet was visited by her forces.

As such, the "Pure Faith" elite advance should remain a definite possibility, yet not simply handed out just like that but carefully judged on both the character's history (what is the origin of this abnormally extreme faithfulness?) and personality (how does he conduct himself?), as well as maybe even the ability of the player to portray such a role (then again, this is something that would apply to any "extreme" characters). It should definitively be an extremely rare thing, and played up as such in the game's world, just like it is done in the studio material and the novels.

Another question that would accompany this is the subject of Faith Talents, i.e. if the GM would allow the character to buy them, and how many. That said, this is just an extension of the original question, determined by how insanely faithful the character and how good his reason/background is. GMs and players alike would likely all have their own opinions and preferences towards the level of "commonness".

One would argue that it's far easier to have faith when isolated from the realities of life, but that should not preclude those who live in the 'real world' from having it, and that they are 'living' their faith more than monastic types. One could argue that faith tempered in the forge of cold reality is less brittle, and stronger as a result.

I always considered monastic life as somewhat of a cop-out, frankly. A place where those who are likely to question things or falter can be bolstered by all those around them, be easily detected and put right if they stray, and generally existing in a false environment. It's why cults isolate members, after all.. What test of faith is it for faith to exist in a place surrounded by faithful, where all is provided for, and any awkward theological questions are theoretical in nature, rather than in-your-face facts and matters of survival?

With that in mind; I have no problem dolling out faith talents to those who -by dint of roleplay and character conception- deserve them.

Siranui said:

Indoctrination may be a cheap "cop out" compared to finding true faith by oneself, but it seems to work just as well.

Speaking of indoctrination - the Schola Progenium also trains clergy members. Perhaps this would be a suitable first step for a player who plans to have Pure Faith confirmed by his GM? It's not sufficient by itself, but it would make an excellent first step.

I'd just like to add that there are a few RAW ways for non-Sororitas to get Pure Faith.

In the Inquisitor's Handbook the Black Priest can get it.

Blood of Martyrs has many choices

• There's a background package for Guardsman that gives you Pure Faith. It describes how your character witnessed a true miracle (or at least thought he did) on the battlefield and has been forever changed.
• Clerics now have many abundant options to gain Pure Faith through alternate ranks.
• Some Cell Directives include Pure Faith as an option on their advancement tables as well.

confesors (blood of maryrs) with rank 1 i believe you could get pure faith, something about them realy realy believing is what they are doing is in the best intrest of humanity/mankind

pure faith as an advanced keep it open yes, give it freely no. it has too have been trigerd by something that would make them believe.

unshakebel faith however just a tiny bit less hard. not that hard too convice one self that what you believe is realy true.

harder too believe something happend that you cant explain sept with faith (that it might have been something els doesn`t matter thenbut does later if and when said person finds out (like finding out the mirical was just some kind of teck, that could challenge ones faith is something or someone

Disclaimer: The following is the personal opinion of the poster and should in no way be construed as fact, sweeping generalization, or Imperial Edict - Pure Faith should be EXCEPTIONALLY rare, even moreso than psychic ability. I don't like that it is "built-in" to any class. It doesn't bother me so much with the Sororitas, but even with them I don't think it should be automatic. (Hopefully) Soon, I will be running a Dark Heresy campaign in which the party will be joined by a NPC Cleric with Pure Faith. Without getting too detailed, his presence & Faith are there specifically for plot reasons. He could very well be the only person with Pure Faith that they ever meet. TRULY faithful people are extremely rare, and I feel that making Faith easy to aquire & a means to get some "cool powers" really does it a disservice. I think that Pure Faith should always be used with GM approval only & should be played to the hilt or taken away. Less is more. A good example of this can be found in the Star Wars movies. The Force in the Classic Trilogy = wide-eyed wonder. The Force in the Prequel Trilogy = that was cool. While I did enjoy them all, the prequel Jedi were more like superheroes than "luminous beings" as Yoda said. The Force fired my imagination so much more when it was mysterious & unknown.

Indeed - with BoM, it just feels a bit like inflation. Though I would point out the possibility of separating Pure Faith from actual Faith Talents. Resistence against corruption due to sheer strength of will sounds less like a "mood breaker" than a set of fancy magic spells. Still rare, but easier to justify.

I have actually avoided buying that book because of all of the forum chatter it produced.

Alpha Chaos 13 said:

It's actually a really well-written book. While some dislike the increased access to Pure Faith and related Talents, that is only a small portion of the book (around 15 pages). The alternate ranks, revised Soroitas career and associated alternate ranks, and general information on the Ecclesiarchy at-large and the Calixian Diocese make it a worthwhile purchase IMO.

Black_Kestrel said:

Whilst I would disagree about the revised Sororitas career (the IH approach felt way more fitting whilst cleverly circumnavigating the issue of balancing with Novice ranks) and certain signature equipment comes off as rather disappointing compared to its description in GW canon, I have to agree that the book also has a lot of good parts and comes with a chunk of information on matters of faith and history related to the Calixis Sector, the default location for all Dark Heresy campaigns.

All in all, it's a bit "hit and miss", but in the end I did not regret the purchase, and if someone plays a clerical character I would really recommend this book for inspiration. In my opinion, a big part of the role also comes from knowledge about Saints, miracles, etc that the character could reference during play.

Faith powers now are simply another type of powers, like psychic powers, but the seconds can be combined with sorcery.

So how tough is 'Assassin Strike' or 'Machine Triat' for example? If it suits your character and the GM agrees then pay the XP like any other advance.

Lynata said:

I don't have the funds to buy all of the books that come out anyway. I guess I'll put it back on the list, but towards the bottom! Thanks for the input.

I am more likely to allow Pure Faith as a Elite Advance then I am to allow Sisters anyway.

Peacekeeper_b said:

Lol. I'm inclined to agree.

Playing a cleric type, with gimped combat skills and a lot of faith? Here have a bone and some true faith talents.

Want to play a combat monster who starts with power armour, a bolter, and gets a load of crazy faith talents as well? Maybe not.

Siranui said:

I'm currently testing the BoM career, and though I would - in retrospect - have rather taken the IH one, I'd say that it worked out nicely so far. I'm giving those strange faith talents a wide berth, though, and our GM is letting the other characters requisition weapons and armour (within limits) from the Inquisition, so this may serve to balance it out. I'd likely be much worse were we to play it by the book, with the Acolytes looting stub revolvers off dead gangers etc.

In that regard I still have to agree that this revamped career was a very weird way to go. Still below their canon efficiency, yet too powerful for a starting DH group. And to top it off, they essentially "get stuck" later on when they are surpassed by the other combat careers who have a bit more freedom in choosing their gear as well as cheaper skills and talents.

On that note, I wonder if Only War and the Book of Law won't give the other careers a little "power push" as well? It seems to be a general trend throughout FFG's books.