Since his poor stats (compared to the high Threat cost) has been confirmed, I wonder why there isn't a greater outcry. I really wonder why the formula has been modified for him, if not for Frodo in the next expansion. I'd understand if there was a super-powerful Hobbit-trait-oriented card coming up but since Frodo seems ok, there probably isn't.

I know he's supposed to be slightly older in these years but yet, I have always find him much more heroic than his nephew/cousin, thus especially the Willpower of 1 seems especially wrong. The ability is good but surelly not worth the +3 threat modification, is it?

As one of my all-time favourite character, I'd really like to have him in a deck but considering replacing Beravor with him seems a total folly from the Boromir-type-of-player point of view.

Probably because people have already discussed him and most agree he doesn't look very good. I can't see myself using him over Beravor, but perhaps you could put both of them together in a big-draw support deck that gets everyone lots of cards? Bilbo probably does deserve better, but maybe he'll get another version in the future.

Aren't you guys underestimating his ability? You essentially get to go through your deck twice as fast for free. That is a massive advantage in this kind of game. How often have you sat there hoping that gandalf would come out of thec deck to save you? Bilbo increases your chances of having a consistently good hand like no other card in the game.

That's why i'm OK with his drawbacks. With big power should come a big price tage...and it has.

Beravor gets a player two cards. Now Bilbo doesn't have to exhaust to get one card, but what exactly is he going to do? He only has 1 willpower, and questing with 2 HP is risky if The Necromancer's Reach is in the deck. He can only attack for 1 damage. 2 defense is okay, but with 2 HP one bad shadow effect could kill him. And if Evil Storm is in the deck he becomes even more fragile.

I know there's been discussion elsewhere, I just felt like bringing it up again since it has been official.

Yeah. I'm still hoping I'm just underestimating him. But all the logic seems to say otherwise. Of course, the ability is great but really, what are you gonna do with the stats? If there is an enemy with an Attack of 2 or less, you can hope to defend it. Or you can quest for 1 every turn and use Glorfindel if needed, in a majority of time that should be enough to keep him alive.

There are other two heroes that usually just quest with a Willpower of 1, Theodred and Thalin. I haven't used Thalin much because I don't play Tactics-major and Legolas always seems much better choice. Theodred on the other hand is very useful if just for questing slow and dealing extra resrource.

The worst seems the comparison with Beravor. Of course you can just replace Glorfindel or Denethor in all Lore deck but Beravor usually seems a good relations as she also gives you extra cards. You basically need to use (exhaust) Beravor once in every other turn to get the same number of cards as Bilbo gets. In the other turn she can quest for 2 (as if Bilbo quested twice) or defend one stronger enemy... It seems at best even now but there is the big difference: with Unexpected Courage, it gets all skewed and Bilbo just seems useless in comparison because there is probably no card to make Bilbo much more useful than he is, is there? Citadel Plate? Foolish. Favour of the Lady or Celebrian's Stone? Yeah, there are always better candidates. What else? Maybe other expansions will take care of this? Or maybe I (and others as I see) will have to deal with it.

I agree that his ability is stellar in solo play, but it greatly diminishes with even a second player. They should've made his threat level equal to his power in a 2-player game at least since that's where it seems to be balanced. Therefore, I could see a threat of 7 or maybe 8 but being one less threat than Beravor for less than half the stats is just absurd. As it is, I probably won't play him at cost 9, but we may house rule him to be a 6.

Mestrahd said:

Well, I don't think he's getting worse with more players. The card is still there and with more heroes the team can probably find a minor role for him better than in solo where he can be a total weak point.

Otherwise, you summed up what I think. There's been talk of house rule him for the cost of 6 and I'd kinda support that. I'd like to hear the designer(s) thought about his stats...

I've printed him out and just tried him in a coop Anduin. We've won easily. The player who used him had a starting threat cost of 30 (with Glorfindel and Legolas) thus we had to deal with the troll round 1. If Bilbo was 6, the total would have been 27 and the beginning a much easier story.

PS: Howbout a petition to reprint him stronger in the next expansion, I'd be all for that... or perhaps they'll do his own attachment (like Mithril Coat) that would really boost him up, that'd be very sweet. I hope the people responsible will read this thread and act accordingly. Haha. Thanks in advance.

Well, I played with him at the preview event. I replaced Denethor with him (maybe I should have done Berevor?) in an all Lore deck and I did not have any regrets. He helped everyone out in my three player game and he never died nor did I find I was lacking in strength in any area. That's my two cents.

I really would have liked to see Bilbo with 2 Willpower. It would make him a lot more tempting to use and I think be more accurate.

gatharion said:

Yeah, at least that. It would really make a difference. His stats could have been same as Frodo's. The ability is almost the same. Well, Bilbo's is better. Haha.

Narsil0420 said:

I was mostly playing 2 player games so far. Today was the first time I have played 3 player, Anduin. I find it WAY easier. And Bilbo's inability to fight is almost neutralized with a number of capable heroes. I think his weakness is more pronounced in a 2 player, and MUCH more in solo. In our game, he seemed very useful.

Drawing a card while still having the possibility to exhaust is a very powerfull ability, the problem with costing the card is, and this was discussed earlier, the value of this ability goes down when the player count increases. That is an inherent weakeness with the scalling system of the game, at least for now.

If Bilbo's cost was lower then 9, I would contend that any deck that runs Lore would run him, because doubling resources while still being able to exhaust to quest for 1 is extremely valuable. However, at 9, the cost is way to high for the benefit you get in a 3-4 player game, and probably off by 1 vs where it should be in a 2 player game.

I would have personnally left the threat cost there, but made him 2 will power, which also seems appropriate story wise, that would not have broken him for single player, and made him ok for 2 player.

Troopershark said:

Thematically it would surelly be right to have his Willpower 2. As I wrote above, I really hope there come a card (fingers crossed for Mithril Coat) that will help him become more valuable.

Troopershark said:

But what do you do with Bilbo on your turn? It sounds nice to say that you can draw a card without exhausting, but what do you get when you do exhaust? He is a poor attack or blocker, and only adds one to your quest total. Assuming you have Protector or Eowyn in play, Beravor can tap for two cards and then discard one to get the same effect as Bilbo would have when questing. Save for a few random corner cases, Beravor is a far more flexible and superior hero.

Bohemond said:

You are, unfortunatelly, and until something new comes up, totally right.

There was an incident in my Escape from Dol Guldur game though when we got Caught in a Web, then Bilbo actually proved "useful" as he did nothing just collected resources and producing the extra card each turn. But, I see, this is a very specific situation, indeed.

I think Bilbo ain't that bad. What you'll have to do is taylor a deck around his strength (which is not exhausting for card draw and his 2 defense).

So for example you can give him Protector of Lorien and have a pretty reasonable defender, who fuels the Protectors ability himself. Considering that you only have to discard a card on some turns, gives you a net card gain AND a defender of strength 3 whenever needed (or more). Beravor could only defend every other turn given the current compare scheme.

And then there is Common Cause, a card that is really useful with Bilbo. And since you are drawing a lot more cards, adding those cheap cards that have actual uses is nice imho.

Or consider giving him one (or two) Mark of the Dunedain. Attacking is probably the safest job for the heroes, so while giving you extra cards, he keeps pounding for 2 or 3 ATK which (again) Beravor only could do ever other turn, even with these attachments.

Of course there are cards that suit Beravor better (Unexpected Courage obviously, but also that new Rohan ally), thats why it comes down how you build your deck.

All it takes for Bilbo to be worthwhile is one or two good attachments, so take him into consideration during deck building.

Small Summary: To me it seems, that Bilbo goes better with Leadership while Beravor fits better with Spirit.

hope this helps.

plueschi said:

A very nice look at things. It is true that many around here (me included) were primarily looking at the initial stats without considering much of what "could happen". Even with Spirit, if you give each Beravor and Bilbo Favour of the Lady, Bilbo can quest for 4 in two rounds whilst Beravor for 3 in one... thus the readiness of his can pay off in certain cases.

It still does seem a bit undercooked, especially his Willpower could have at least been 2, and his stamina is just very low (though thematically rightly so I feel), but I can say that we (some) are trying hard to make him work. I am already adjusting my previously well-working deck due to his presence.

Mithril Coat- Hobbit character only, attached character gets... +2 defence? +2 hit points? what do people think? it's thematic, (can't imagine Bilbo's mithril coat fitting Aragorn too well) and would make the Hobbit characters a lot more useful.

More generally, I think that there will need to be quite a few things focused upon Hobbits to make this game fit the story long-term. On their bare stats (especially if they're doing things like only giving Bilbo 1 willpower) they just aren't that useful, and certainly aren't the key to saving Middle-Earth

I wonder where you've all seen the stats of Frodo!

Please share

Mighty Jim said:

Totally agree. Wrote something of the kind before. It should/could be restricted for Hobbits or even for Bilbo. For two reasons, Frodo's stats are just alright, second, it was Bilbo's at the time. Maybe it could have an action that would move it to Frodo for a cost of 1. Would that not be sweet? I have to say it would even though it is my idea.

Whether it should increase hit points or defense I am not sure. Citadel Plate does hit points. Continuity? As for the numbers, the increase of 2 should be enough, the cost should definitelly be 1.

And there should be two effects, surely. Either the boost and moveability or the boost plus something else, like Blade of Gondolin has, just different, of course.

I used Bilbo in a tactics major deck and I have to say he worked extremely well. I had him questing for one each turn with Thalin keeping Legolas back to fight. Worked very well indeed. The ability to draw three cards each turn was extremely important to my success.

As for future cards I can see hobbit cards coming up to make it easier for them to dodge combat as for me that would be thematic but only time will tell.

Emrad said:

There's a Spanish version of him at BGG under the Conflict at Carrock.

Thanks, I'll just post it hear so that everybody can see it

Response: After Frodo Baggins has received damage, cancel this damage and rise up your Threat by the amount of damage that had been dealt. Limit: one per phase.

2 Dol Guldur games with Bilbo and we got Caught in a Web twice in each and attached each to him (hope that is legal, I see why not). And I have to say it is perfect, every other hero would have been seriously cripled but Bilbo can still get the extra card every round... which is very useful.

Thinking about Frodo, he seems to have an exceptionally strong ability as he can basically take one attack undefended. With cards like Dark Knowledge and Galadhrim's greeting in Spirit, his ability is really well complemented. He will also work well with the Lore deck-peekers and can happily quest with Dol Goldor Orcs waiting to jump out.