Reading some of the recent posts I came up with an idea to do a one shot adventure where the big bad is actually a revenge seeking angry squat bent on getting whatever justice he can against humans for turning their backs on the squats when the home worlds were eaten by the nids.

So I was just wondering, are the squats a lot like dwarves in the past 40K fluff or just similar? Are they unnable to get psyker powers, mutations and so forth?

What kind of weapons did they use?

They lave memories as long as their beards, they're fabulous grudge keepers.

They DO have psykers, in the form of Runelords, so ancestral magic and very nordic "fury, thunder & lightning" themes.

The older a squat got the more likely they were to develop psyker powers as well, witrh some of the Venerable Old clan chiefs being more than on par with the marine librarians.

Weapons wise, they were seen as on par with the Adeptus Mechanicus, but with out the relegious fervour.

Comparable to a standard IG army but with their own version of Power armour and even some Terminator armour type suits.

Plasma & Meltas also featured quite strongly, as did power axes, thunderhammers and the good old Trike mounted twinplasma cannon

AND there terminators could ride bikes!

Mutation never seemed to be a problem, though there were the odd chaos dwarf figure that was al tentacles & horns. Solelegends.com wound be a good place to look for them figures, but Mutation was never a major problem for the Squats, nor indeed a minor problem.

'Fanon' sites:

http://www.inisfail.com/40k3/squats3-sect.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squat_(Warhammer_40,000 )

where can I find the fluff detailings the Squat homeworld being recycled by Tyranids?

I'll try to dig out the interview with GW heads regarding the whole matter.

It was left pretty much as a footnote in one of the 'nid codex books when they changed from 2nd to 3rd ed rules

Sadly the Jervis Johnson interview has been deleted from the specialist games forum on the GW site, it might survive online else where, but heres this from the Wiki..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squats_(Warhammer_40,000)#Removal_from_the_game

The Squats have been out of the current games and model production by Games Workshop since the 1990s. The release of the third edition of Warhammer 40,000 in 1998 marked the removal of the final elements of the Squat rules from the game. The last miniatures to be released by Citadel were the Epic Squat war engines (such as the Goliath Mega Cannon) in 1994, though the release of Warhammer 40,000 scale had stopped some four years previously in 1990. Though no new models were released, sales did continue at a low level through retail stores and through Mail Order for several years until they were eventually discontinued completely.

In terms of the game background, the Squat Home Worlds were attacked and devoured by the Tyranids of a hive fleet. However, the few Squats not on the Home Worlds survived on, typically as either pirates or members of the Imperium's armies. As no actual Squat-specific background material was published after 1993 this pivotal moment in the race's history has only ever been briefly mentioned or referenced, and so not much is known. One can assume however, that as they did not "fit" well as a race into the Imperium, they have been all but removed by a convenient Tyranid Hive fleet, in rather the same way that the Zoats were disposed of.

Many say that they are the major victim of Games Workshop's attempts to make Warhammer 40,000 a totally original setting and not just Warhammer Fantasy in space. The Squats had thrived in early Warhammer 40,000's dark but slightly silly atmosphere - where characters and planets were named after pop singers and cake manufacturers . Games Workshop's official stance, however, is that the Squats were dropped because they felt dissatisfied with their established background and army design.

Squat miniatures go for relatively high prices on eBay and fans reportedly bombard the games developers regularly with what is called "the Squat Question". Many other model making companies have been producing space dwarf models for a long time. Some players have written their own rules for Warhammer 40K so Squat armies can be played. However popular this trend has proven to be, the official ruling from Games Workshop is that only 40K miniatures can be used in GW stores and GW-sponsored tournaments.

A statement on why the Squats were dropped was given by games designer Jervis Johnson on 28 July 2004. In a Squat-themed thread on a popular Warhammer 40,000 message board, he posted an official response to the Squat Question. Summarising, Johnson said the race was removed from the Warhammer 40,000 universe for the following reasons:

* The designers felt that the "Dwarven" concept was not given justice, and that the Squats were more of a joke race.
* There existed a design disparity with the Warhammer 40,000 and the Epic-scale renditions of the race, which prevented there being a cohesive vision of the race.
* Despite the efforts of the design team, they were unable to think up ways to revitalize the concept.[3]

Jervis Johnson's statement also confirms that the Demiurg began as an effort to re-think the concept of Squats, after their annihilation, and that the concept might one day be expanded on.

Some people still use Squat models for their army, and use the rules of another race to play them (usually Imperial Guard, because by using certain weapons and doctrines they can simulate Squat rules). Although they are no longer in the game, traces of them can still be found in Warhammer 40,000 fiction. Squats are mentioned in the current Ork codex, though only by nickname. Squats also get a Small mention in Dawn of War Tempest, Where it describes a librarian carrying an unusual force-axe that was recovered from the planet Dorian Prime, a world lost for millennia behind warp storms, where once normal human citizens had become stunted and malformed by gravitational effects, their metal working skills were beyond compare. The planet has been lost to the galaxy again, due to warp storms. The trilogy The Inquisition Wars also features a motor-tricycle riding squat named Grimm as part of the retinue of the protagonist, Jaq Draco.

It is popular Games Workshop studio lore that every time someone asks the 'Squat Question', the clock before they are re-released is reset.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand because today i appear to be made of Awesome, heres is what was asked for

All apologies for the format however.

A statement on why the Squats where dropped was given by Jervis Johnson on 28 July 2004.

He said:

I know I shouldn't get drawn on this... but... can't... resist

Seriously, a couple of points just so you can have an informed debate based on the real reasons that Squats are no longer available.

Be warned, it is going to be hard reading for people that like the Squat background.

First of all, Squats were *not* dropped because they were not selling well. There were then, and are now, plenty of other figure

ranges that sell in the sort of quantities that the Squats pulled down, especially when you look across all of the ranges produced

by GW rather than just those for 40K.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

No, the reason that the Squats were dropped was because the creatives in the Studio (people like me, Rick, Andy C, Gav etc.) felt

that we had failed to do the Dwarf 'archetype' justice in its 40K incarnation. From the name of the race (Squats - what *were* we

thinking?!?!) through to the short bikers motif, we had managed to turn what was a proud and noble race in Warhammer and the other

literary forms where the archetype exists, into a joke race in 40K. We only fully realised what we had done when we were working on

the 2nd edition of 40K. Try as we might, we just couldn't work up much enthusiasm for the Squats. The mistake we made then (deeply

regretted since) was to leave them in the background and the 'get you by' army list book that appeared. With hindsight, we should

have dropped the Squats back then, and saved ourselves a lot of grief later on.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Anyway, the Squats made it into 2nd edition, and since we were doing army books for each of the races, we started to try and figure

out what to do with them. Unfortunately we just couldn't figure out a way to update them and get them to work that we felt was good

enough. The 'art' of working on an army as a designer is to find the thing that you think is cool and exciting about an army, and

work it up into a strong theme. This 'muse' didn't strike any of us, and so, rather than bring out a second-rate product simply

re-hashing the old background, we kept doing other army books instead, with stuff we did feel inspired by.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Now, while this was all going on for 40K, we were actually doing some rather good stuff for the Squats in Epic. On this scale there

was a natural tenancy to focus on the big 'hand-made' war machines the Squat artisans produced, and this created an army with a

feel that was very different to the biker hordes in 40K. However, this tended to reinforce the problems we saw in the Squat

background rather than alleviate them, underlining what we *should* have done with the Squats in 40K.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

In the end (and it took years to really get to the roots of the problem) this led to a realisation that we were going to have to

drop the Squats in their 'Squat' form from the 40K background. There was little point having a major race that we weren't willing to

make an army book for, and their inclusion in the background meant that people kept asking us when we'd do a Squat Codex. Instead we

decided that we'd write the Squats out of the background by saying that their Homeworlds had been devoured by a Tyranid Hivefleet.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

This would give us the option in the future to return to making a race based on the Squat archetype for 40K. This race was given the

name of Demiurg, and a certain amount of preliminary work was done to get a 'feel' for what the race would be like. At present the

only hint of the Demiurg in 40K is the Demiurg spaceship for BFG.

However, we do have this race 'in our back pocket' as a possible

new race for 40K, or an interesting character model in Inquisitor, or whatever. So far the Demiurg have lost out to other projects,

and it may be that their time never actually comes, as they will have to win through on their merits, not simply because we once

made some Squat models in the past. At present, I have to say that it is more likely that they *don't* make the cut than do, as

there is a certain prejudice these days to simply taking races from Warhammer and cross them over to 40K like we did in the early

days, so it may be that the Squats/Demiurg end up remaining a footnote in the history of the 40K galaxy. Only time will tell...

The second point I'd like to make is about 'old moulds'. In the past, Mail Order in the UK and US used to be the place that we kept

all of the retired moulds for Citadel Miniatures, and we used to offer a service where you could order any Citadel Miniature ever

made from MO.

However, there are now so many of these 'back catalogue' miniatures that it is simply impossible to keep all of the

old moulds in Mail Order and offer this service. Instead, we pick and choose which back catalogue miniatures are kept available. At

present we're still struggling to produce special catalogues for these ranges (in the US there is the 'Phone Book' catalogue with

everything in it, while the UK has special 'collectors guides' that are themed round a race). Once we've ironed out the kinks in the

way we deal with the range of collectors models we want to keep permanently available, the plan is to offer up other parts of the

back catalogue for limited periods of time. In effect this will divide the back catalogue into three parts: a range of classic

models that are permanently available, a range of classic models we dip into and bring out for a limited release, and a range of

retired models that will no longer be sold either because we've decided that they are embarrassingly bad, or because we are no

longer allowed to sell them due to licensing agreement changes. So far we're still slowly working on deciding which classic models

we want to keep permenently available, and its going to take several years to work through just those. The old Squat range is most

likely to end up as retired models, I have to say, though there is a good chance that the Squat war engines they could simply into

the limited release classic range. Once again, only time will tell...

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

I'll finish off by saying that whatever we decide to do 'officially', there is nothing stopping players with Squat armies from using

them, either in Epic or 40k for that matter. There is no GW 'rule' against using old Citadel Miniatures, as long as you use them

with existing army lists and in a way that won't cause confusion for other players. I recommend taking a positive stand by saying

"Have you seen these cool old models? They're called the Squats and GW used to make them back in the late eighties/early nineties. I

love 'em, so I count them as Imperial Guard and use them with the current rules..." Put like this I can't imagine that anyone would

stop you from using your army.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Best regards,

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Jervis Johnson

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Head Fanatic

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

(Above taken from http://forums.specialist-games.com/epic/forum_b/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=2532&whichpage=3 )

So hatred of humans would fit?

Bolt weapons or autoguns with mono-axes?

Engaging in sabotage missions.

With a possibility of one Runelord type psyker and a mutant.

And where were the squats home worlds and when were they destroyed?

Peacekeeper_b said:

Yes.

Bolt for the higher ranking people, so yes for your Big Bad, i'd say custom made storm bolter, with built in grenade launchers (smoke & Frag). Again, Custom made monoaxe, possibly with an acid splash on 1st impact (something the players Will Not Expect..) to ruin the armour of who ever he's attacking.

Sabotage yes, but left for minions, which would be an excellent way for the group to track back to him via investigations & stake outs.

Less so on the Mutant, unless you make him a minor psyker *** mutant. blinded by 'nid attack and uses a 6th sense to see, whiuch also allows him truth sense or something similar, making him very useful to his clan cheif.

As for the home world, not sure. i think it was BEhemoth that wiped out their worlds, but i cant be sure on that. As they were a pretty dispersed bunch it could have been any. He'd Certainly have something against Inquisitor Kryptman (who directed the 'nids to certain planets to keep them occupied..). You could make it seem like =][= Kryptman being either set up or personally targeted in the sabotage attacks.

One of the reasons people think it's such a weak excuse that the Squats just got wiped out is that their homeworlds (yes plural not just one tiny world) is that their area of space was not only quite large (in fact if you compare various galactic maps published I reckon the Squat Homeworlds space is about 12 times bigger than the Calixis, Ixaniad and Scarus Sectors combined) but it's located on the earth side of the Ultima Segmentum near the Maelstrom. Apparently a splinter fleet from Behemoth munched through them all. Behemoth attacked Ultramar in 745. M41 so sometime after that i'm guessing for when they became Nid food.

Personally I think considering they where right next to the Maelstrom then a massed Chaos invasion or even mad warp storms are more likely candidates for killing the Squats.

Darkshroud said:

It would have been nice to have a "good bye campeign" sort of thing where the Squats were besieged by the forces of chaos then the stragglers were 'nid food.

Would have been far more interesting than a footnote in a book.

HOPEFULLY however, the Demiurg, who've been both concept and Spacefleet/Battlefleet Gothic playable race for a number of years now, will be fulyl fleshed out..

God knows there was a frenzy for the Necrons and Tau when they were released, it'd be more so with the Demiurg which could even bring a vast number of old players back to the game as well.

Given that Armageddon/Cities of Death is about Huge forces, this'd be perhaps they best time to bring them back in to the game as there IS now a chance for Squat Battletrains and seige machines to be played on the feild and not just in a game of Epic.

Just as a minor addendum, i'd reccomend getting hold of the 2nd ed Codex Imperialis as it has almost all of theinfo on the Squats, as well as some gems long forgotton in the GW historical re-shuffles, and some great info about each part of the Imperium, which is good for basing plots & scenarios on..

As its no longer in print you'll have to root around online for it in digital format if you dont mind such things or look on ebay where it might be available.

Oh, and...

http://www.zachary.org/games/gw/sq1.jpg
http://www.zachary.org/games/gw/sq2.jpg
http://www.zachary.org/games/gw/sqbike.jpg
http://www.zachary.org/games/gw/sqheav.jpg
http://www.zachary.org/games/gw/chsq.jpg
http://www.zachary.org/games/gw/sqexo.jpg

One of the things that annoyed me was that the Squats apparently had a base on Ganymede- if all the Squat worlds were eaten by 'nids, surely people would have noticed- even a splinter Hive fleet in the Sol system is nasty business...

Well, its going to be difficult to rationalise the squat question 'in fluff' whatever you do. After all the squats had thousands of homeworlds in the galactic cenral core.

That's quite some tyranid hivefleet to consume so many worlds!

2nd ed has "700 Leagues", which is to say 700 recognized worlds or groups of worlds each of which had a chief/lord, and far many more undiscovered.

Codex imperialis page 72

Velvetears said:

Indeed. The Leagues appear to hame been 'multi-world' organisations, or rather 'multi stronghold'...

THE HOMEWORLDS

There are several thousand homeworlds and it is very likely that there are worlds still awaiting rediscovery after the Time of Isolation.

Codex imperialis page 72

Whatever the actual number, thats a hell of a 'nid fleet!!!

great lil book inst it