Stark Armies

I'm also fairly new, but one thing did stand out. Stark army deck with no War Host of the North (Core)? That seems odd... any particular reason you didn't include it?

I'll gladly lend you some hopefully wise words to help with the deck building...oh and welcome to the game!

First, I see you are running Bear Island but then are also running 2 copies of Training Grounds, 2 Crow Killers, and 2 Roseroads. That is not going to work. I would drop Bear Island seeing as how it is a 3 cost location and gold is a hard thing to come by in Stark. You'll want that for paying your high cost army characters.

The Core Set version of Robb is not nearly as good as the LoW version. Especially in this type of deck. I would consider putting in 3x of LoW Robb since he can pump your Army characters and has 1 more STR plus Renown. I know the ability to kill a character when you win a MIL challenge is enticing but 2 Str is sooo bad for a 4 cost character. Venemous Blade, Flame Kissed, among many other cards will take out a 2 Str character like it's nothing.

I would take out Crow Killers and consider 3x Guard at Riverrun for some extra card draw.

I would bump up the Great Keep and Narrow Sea to 3x each. Just better that way and more consistent.

I see you aren't running the Blackfish. Definitely a character I would include. He has Renown and the ability to draw you a card when you win a MIL challenge. 2x should suffice.

With all the recent surge of decks with agendas it seems like a waste to include the Northern Infantry. I would drop that for either 2 more of The Bastard's Elite or add in Riders of the Red Fork from the newest chapter pack that is out. They are searchable with many stark cards or even plots. You could include At the Gates to search out the Riders on the first turn and put them directly into play. Then you have a War crested character on the board from the get go to make use of yours die by the swords and the price of wars.

You seem kinda low on gold from your plots. If you take any of my advice and add in the other Robb or the Blackfish then consider The Power of Blood as a plot. I would take out the Counting Favors for it since giving your opponent 3 cards is just not cool.

You also seem to be running high on events. Given the amount of Noble characters you are running and how much influence you have in the deck I would remove Guilty! and maybe drop The Price of War to 2x and drop either Winter is Coming or Routing the Charge completely. That should make room for a few of the characters above.

Other than that it seems to be pretty solid and a good start to the deck.

AsaTJ said:

Because it costs 7 which is way too much out of Stark and gets owned by a little tiny Carrion Bird? At least that is going to be my guess.

Oh that is another card I would consider...Carrion Bird and also Syrio Forel. A little stealth can go a long way to ensuring that you win those military challenges.

Using the Robb Stark from the KotS set is how I went with my Stark army. Him with a little bit of stand tech can go a long way in dropping alot of military at once. Also, as useful as Training Ground is, I found High Ground and Frozen Outpost to be better gains in my deck. That way i don't worry about going first or second since I can stand all my war crest/ army cards at the most opportune time.

Thanks for the input guys. As far as War Host Of The North, it seems really expensive. About half the cards you guys mentioned I recognize, the rest I'll have to look up. I'll look at the cards suggested later today. If I cvan get the time I'll post my revised deck.

Yes, the ability to kill a character after a Mil. challenge is very enticing, but apparently not always the best way to go in a deck like this.

Here's the revision. I want to hang on to Northern Infantry just to try them out.

I derped, here's the plots.

I would replace the septon's with the riders (Stark decks don't really need intrigue). If you do want to have some intrigue i would suggest LoW Catlyn since she can be played from your hand. Also, I remind you that you cannot play Host of the Bear during setup because they will be discarded during that short time between setup and first plot when everyone do not have initative.

ZombiePrime said:

I still don't have enough experience playing to judge how much defense against intrigue challenges is enough. The Catelyn card you mentioned would be enough defense?

TakeshiKovacs said:

I usually dont run alot of intrigue in my Stark Armies deck because I can find better use in military, power strength. Catelyn will usually save you from one intrigue challenge since most people don't throw alot of strength into a challenge when it seems to be unopposed. Also, since I run frozen outpost, i can use it to stand Cat and up her strength to 5.

I agree with Zombie; Catelyn (LoW) is pretty sharp intrigue defense, and in a deck like this, that's most of what you need to worry about in intrigue challenges.

Also like Zombie said, unless you retool your plot deck significantly, Host of the Bear should probably come out. If you've got your heart set on it, you might consider Retaliation, Fury of the Wolf and Siege of Riverrun.

I really like both Northern Cavalry Flank and Northern Infantry, but the use of one or both might depend on whether this deck is being built for melee or joust.

Generally, you seem a bit event heavy and location light. I might try to even out your resources a little and then run some utility locations, stuff like Frozen Outpost, Widow's Watch, Frozen Moat, Winterfell (LoW), and perhaps High Ground to synergize with those armies.

Speaking of armies, I might lose the Bolton armies unless you plan on including more of the Bolton specific cards or build the deck to keep them from hurting you. Other armies to consider are the aforementioned Riders of the Red Fork, Edmure's Host, and King Robb's Companions. Also consider using the Kings of the Sea Robb, who can reduce the cost of your armies. The LoW Robb is good too, though, as he can pump all your armies.

For events, I like Lethal Counterattack, Endless Endurance, and definitely To Be A Wolf (my pick for Stark's best event) Personally, I don't think you really need Make an Example(you'll get power quickly enough with Siege, so this might be excessive), Guilty! (You'll be killing enough as is), or the Price of War (for the location control, I prefer Frozen Solid, which doubles as attachment control, or try the new Freezing Rain)

For draw, try the Blackfish (great character) and Guard at Riverrun. The Blackfish will be even better the more House Tully characters you include. Guard at Riverrun might even force people into making an ill-advised military challenge against you.

If you feel like being extra tricky, consider using Old Nan for some trait manipulation (such as giving a character the Army trait, or doing some raven manipulation)

More good suggestions. I really appreciate it. There have been further changes made to the deck and by looking at the cards suggested my understanding of the game has increased a little. This game is a lot different than the CCGs I played in the 90s (Overpower, Decipher's Star Wars & Star Trek) and good for entirely different reasons.

Now it's time to put all that to the test by playing some one besides my wife. Just one more deck to build (Targ, probably Dragons) and I'll have 4 to bring to the boardgame groups this weekend. Yes, I will be spamming this forum for feedback on that other deck too.

I am going to disagree with ZombiePrime and Shenanigans when they say that you don't need intrigue challenge defense other than Catelyn. There are going to be plenty of times when you won't draw Catelyn until maybe the 4th or 5th round(if ever) and if your opponent knows anything about what they are doing then they will be making sure to hit your hand with intrigue challenges at every opportunity. Plus after the first time you pop Catelyn into play they know you have her so they will just make sure to attack with enough STR to win the challenge. And once your hand is empty a timely Valar Morgulis will spell your doom as you will be top decking only drawing 2 cards per turn while your opponent probably has a hand full of cards.

I agree that you need to run the Blackfish. But the Robb that reduces your armies only works if he is the only King character in play and there are alot of decks out there running Kings so he may not do anything for you but have Renown. Better to go ahead and play the LoW Robb.

Host of the Bear is a good card but they are right that it will get discarded if you play it during setup. I would drop at least 1 and add in a 3rd Bastard's Elite. That is a fantastic card and is so cheap who cares if your opponent can steal it. If you ever lost a mil challenge just kill it for claim and don't worry about it.

Old Nan is just awesome to take away opposing traits so I would definitely put her in.

Agreed that you still look event heavy. I would recommend dropping Guilty since you don't have enough Influence to use it and your nobles will probably be knelt during dominance anyway since you will want to attack with them for the renown. So it would be a good choice to drop. That gets you to 11 events. I like to be around 8-10 so I would drop 1 Price of War and 1 Winter is Coming. That gets you to 9 which is a good number. Toss in 1 Old Nan, 2 The Blackfish, and 1 more Great Keep and you are back to your starting number.

Bolton Refugees are in the deck for cheap Intrigue defense and the Blackfish has been added for card draw. Thanks for the help widowmaker.

The deck has both Catelyn and Bolton refugees for INT defense and is down to 9 events.

...and down to 9 events.

Good, I think you will find that it should run much more smoothly now. If you find that you need any more Intrigue defense then the next cards to cut would be the Wolf Heralds and Royal Guards.

Royal Guard because a 1 STR Stalwart character is just asking to keep drawing him every turn since Martell will try and kill him with VB or if they game of cyvasse it back to your hand it will go to the top of the deck instead.

Wolf Heralds are ok but I just don't think you will need to search for any characters since nobody you have is that important to the deck.

Options to put in their place include...

Ser Jorah Mormont - 2 cost 3 STR Tri-con with Stealth...yes please!!!!

Old Nan - good for intrigue defense and trait manipulation if needed.

KL Sansa Stark - Can be a 4 STR Noble with Renown when no cards are in shadows. Only 2 cost so would help with your setup since the armies are so expensive.

Cat of the Canals - Immune to anything your opponent can do other can military claim and your own plots. Find a way to pump her STR...such as Northern Steel and she is amazing.

Jeyne Westerling - She is a Lady and a Queen and has the ability to search your deck to find a Robb Stark. Nothing wrong with that. 1 Cost and can be easy claim soak.

DotN Mance Rayder - 3 cost 3 STR with the ability to shut off opposing wildling or NW agenda's for a phase. Can also blank locations with The North trait. Also has the King trait and is a Tri-Con

Craster - 2 Cost 5 STR intrigue icon. Just don't lose any challenges with him or your opponent will draw 2 cards.

These are all good choices and should be of help if you find that you are losing alot of intrigue challenges and it is hurting the deck.

~Nathan

widowmaker93 said:

The only issue i would have about adding these characters is the fact that you are really getting away from a Stark Armies deck by changing it to much. After a while it becomes a generic Stark deck. I do agree with Jeyne as she can also search for the Riders as well as which ever King you want.

Still, in all the games i have played with Stark Army deck, I never had much of an issue with intrigue. I guess I just finish the game off too quick before intrigue becomes an issue.

ZombiePrime said:

Well, the Royal Guard and the Wolf Heralds are not Army characters so I don't think it really matters.

And if I remember correctly in our game at the TN regional you were top decking fairly quick because you had no intrigue defense and my Lanny deck was blasting your hand. If I didn't make a couple mistakes that last round I would have easily won. Don't forget that.

I didn't (and wouldn't) say that this deck needs no intrigue defense other than Catelyn (LoW) but Stark in general, particularly builds with a lot of kill and Siege builds, don't need a lot of intrigue defense. LoW Catelyn is so nice for this purpose because not only does she jump in from and back to your hand, thus helping protect her from a lot of opposing character hate, but you can even put her into a losing challenge to prevent her from being discarded and your opponent from getting unopposed power. She's one of those cards that makes your opponent think twice about how or if they'll do intrigue challenges, and perhaps make them under or over commit. With the speed of a Siege deck, even one foiled intrigue challenge going your way can buy enough time to help you seal the game. Using her in combination with Frozen Outpost (which a Stark Army deck should have 2-3 of) is even better. She's also a great target for "To Be a Wolf" or other search. Old Nan and Jorah Mormont are both acceptable additions if you feel low on Intrigue icons. One thing to keep in mind with character selection is that 3 is a magic number for printed strength. Venomous Blade is very popular nowadays, so think carefully before using any character with a printed strength of two or lower. Lucas Blackwood would be worth it, because he's cheap and when killed, nets you an instant military challenge, great for a Siege deck.

I agree with Widowmaker on taking out the Heralds and Royal Guards; I don't think you need the search and the Guards can clog up your draw and aren't particularly great, especially with the thrust of your deck. I also think Jeyne Westerling is a good addition. She can find your Robb (or Riders of the Red Fork if you add those) and she shuts off other Queens (I'm looking at Alannys Greyjoy in particular)

For attachments, I don't know if Ice and Needle are really worth it. They're nice, but that's about it. Frozen Solid will be nice general utility against anoying things like Venomous Blade, Taste for Blood, Devious Intentions, and various annoying locations, like Greyjoy Warships. Icy Catapult is excellent also, but situational. Milk of the Poppy is nice for shutting down Beric Dondarrion and the Red Viper among others.

I guess my thoughts lie more with Zombie's on this issue. Stick more to your main focus of getting out big mean armies, winning lots of military (and eventually a few power) challenges, and having enough utility to protect those armies and have a bit of card draw. In my experience, particularly with Stark, it's very easy to get distracted by all the neat tricks and fun characters. Also, using a lot of non-Stark characters will make your Fiefdoms and Godswoods less useful.

Speaking of Godswoods, I'm not sure you need two, or even one of them. Your resources are a bit heavy as is. A baseline of 3 Great Keeps, 3 Northern Fiefdoms, 3 Narrow Seas, 1 Lord Eddard's Chambers, a Street of Steel and a Street of Sisters should be plenty. Maybe one Godswood or even a River Row would be fine also; shuffle up and see how your setups look.

Another thought I had was you might be a bit concerned about board resets, as Widowmaker astutely mentioned (Valar, Wildfire Assault) so you might consider using Narrow Escape as your restricted card. Since you are playing a deck that empties its hand pretty quickly, and since a lot of other decks/houses (Lannister and Martell in particular) have lots of draw, they will probably try to reset when you have board advantage, but your hand is low and their hand is full. Narrow Escape will either maintain your board advantage or dump their hand, both of which are good.

For plots, I might lose Muster the Realm (you want people to do military challenges against you) and/or The Power of Blood (your few nobles are important but not critical, the timing can be hard to nail down, and it doesn't protect your armies. Consider Siege of Riverrun (Intrigue challenges aren't that important to you anyway) or even Retaliation.

Good luck!

Speaking of Martell - another reason to have more Intrigue icons is that A game of Cyvasse will ruin a Stark deck all day long. So if you have Ser Jorah Mormont, Craster, or even Mance Rayder that may give you some added defense against this event.