Using the core set rules (I don't have the guides), I can't figure out what happens if a character is KO'd in battle and doesn't instantly die. The rules say, that on being KO'd one wound is transformed into a critical and the number of total crits are compared to the PCs Toughness.

What happens if the PC is still alive and continues being hit? Does the enemy still roll to hit or does he get automatic sucesses (and what kind of successes)?

Are wounds still piled on the PC even though only criticals seem to have any bearing on his survival?

And if he survives the fight, at what point does he wake up again?

This is how I handled it (but maybe I'm just overlooking the rules):

Hits targeting a KO'd character must still be rolled but are simple (0d) and ignore defense. A sucess results in no wounds but is automatically 1 critical. If the roll indicates multiple crits than that's the number. After each additional hit the number of crits are compared to Toughness to determine whether the PC has died.

If he should survive combat a KO'd character can receive healing as usual (but can't drink healing draughts), waking up once he reaches 0 wounds.

Do you guys think this is a feasible way to do it?

Yeah, that's pretty much how I would do it.

Do you agree then, that no additional damage is applied, only criticals? Should there also be a negative wound threshold indicating death, and representing being 'hacked to pieces'?

I agree with letting the PC wake on the next act as the earliest.

The official rules are pretty murky for this as far as I know so we're largely in house rule territory.

At the moment when my PCs are KOed but not killed, I make them keep the wounds dealt. Other PCs can attempt first aid checks to reduce the wounds that they have and bring them round. If that doesn't happen and then I allow the PC to make a resilience check at the end of the encounter (and then at reasonable time frames) to try and recover. Chaos Stars add criticals, successes remove wounds.

I've never had an NPC target a KOed player (other PCs have interfered or been enough of a threat to prevent this) but your house rule on that seems perfectly reasonable.

One other approach people have mooted in the past is to borrow from the corruption rules. With this approach when a PC exceeds their wound threshold they flip over a wound to critical and then remove wounds equal to the severity of that critical. The PC repeats that process until they're at or below their wound threshold, or they die from crits.

If a KOed PC suffers damage you can adopt the same approach, work out the wounds suffered and then start flipping cards and removing wounds equal to the severity of the criticals until the PC is dead or there are no more wounds to convert. This approach is obviously a lot more deadly than the one you're currently using though.

It is pretty much up to the GM, and is heavily based on the circumstances.

As a GM, most enemies would ignore an unconscious opponent while there are still active enemies attacking ... which is pretty realistic, at least for most enemies other than, say hungry mindless beasts (like wolves, rats, etc). Even then, if there is an active opponent in the same engagement, like another PC, chances are they will be distracted by the "attacks" of the engaged enemy.

So, a good rule really is for NPCs to ignore unconscious PCs as long are there are active PCs (or their allies) in the encounter.

After the encounter, it then depends on the situation. NPCs might take those unconscious prisoner, they might leave them for dead, or they might just automatically kill them. Remember, Warhammer is a gritty world. People die, and so can PCs. If the PC got themselves into a situation where they ended up all unconscious, then it wouldn't be out of the question for them to be killed. No rolling necessary at that point, as it is done narratively in Story mode. The players will need to be more careful in the future.

Now, that said. Should you have a reason for an NPC to want to try to specifically make sure a particular unconscious PC opponent is DEAD during combat, while the fight is still raging, I think what I would do is still deal damage. Since the PC took wounds > Wound Threshold, take that to mean +1 critical, in addition to the damage caused, just like the attack that put him unconscious (like he "went unconscious again"). The additional wounds mean that it will take longer for the PC to recover enough wounds in order to become conscious. <shrug> So, other than making it a Simple (0d) check, and +1 critical, nothing new needs to be done. That makes it nice and simple and easy to remember for everyone.

Well dvang, thanks for the lesson in GMing!

Let me asure you, in this case it was perfecly justified, that the monster kept hitting the PC after he was down. Actually, it was like this....

SPOILERS!

During tGS's 'When night Falls' all PCs took a very cautionary approach to dealing with the greenskins. Only the newly dishonored Troll Slayer smashed into the front door, found the troll and saw it as an opportunity to die the good old glorious death. Meanwhile all other PCs were unaware of a troll being in the house. The Troll Slayer thought "I really should solo that" and got his just deserts. Actually, the other players got him out before he died, but the troll sure KOed the slayer (just starting rank 2) and kept hacking away lacking any other enemies to hack away at.

All that being said, and agreeing with your genereal notion that it should be a rare occurance, I still think the rules should adress such an important issue.

Ahh, hmm. How did the other PCs get his body away from the Troll? If the Trollslayer was the only one there when he got KO'd, I would put it into Story mode at that point. A fun thing to do, if you have Omens of War, is find a nice Sever Injury card to apply. I'm thinking a lost arm or leg primarily. The Troll had it as a snack, before he wandered away.

more SPOILERS

The other PCs were fighting in the yard and in the cellar before they had finally worked their way into the main house. It was all encounter mode. Would have been silly to switch into story imo. At that point I would have just decided if the PC lives or dies and that's never a good idea.

Anyway, I'm not sure why you want me to defend how I handled the situation when this is clearly about an important rule missing in the system.

I'm sorry. I did not intend to make you feel defensive. I was honestly just curious how the situation evolved and how the Trollslayer was rescued.

I had a longer post that got "eaten" by the boards for some reason. So, here is my shortened version:

The Trollslayer is helpless with the Troll. The other PCs are not nearby nor a threat/distraction to the Troll (yet, anyway). At that point, I would narrate for the Trollslayer rather than roll dice. How realistic is it, for example, for an NPC to MISS an unconscious PC in that situation? It is possible to roll a miss, even with zero challange/misfortune dice. My advice is to just decide what you want to happen and narrate it, rather than relying on the fickle dice to tell the story.

In relation to following a combat sequence:

TOTALLY EVIL: 1 Maneouvre for the Troll to pick up the unconscious Trollslayer, 1 action for the Troll to bite the Trollslayer's head off

SOMEWHAT EVIL: 1 Maneouvre for the Troll to pick up the unconscious Trollslayer, 1 action for the Troll to bite the Trollslayer's arm/leg off (give Severe Injury Card)

NOT EVIL: The Troll has eaten recently, so drags the Trollslayer's body to its lair/master/cookpot/etc. 1 maneouvre to pick up the Trollslayer, then 1 maneouvre per turn movement until it gets to where it is going.

No need to make any rolls, since the Trollslayer is helpless and there is nothing/nobody near the Troll to hurry/distract it.

Keep it simple. Narrate, don't roll. It isn't anything missing in the rules, because it is really what the GM is supposed to do in unusual situations (which this is)

Yes, I can see where you are getting at and the scenarios you are decribing all make sense. I still think rolling is OK because

a) hitting anything with simple difficulty is pretty much an assured hit anyway

b) trolls are stupid enough (INT 1) to just keep hitting things without sense

c) I like to not make a PCs demise just another GM decision. I don't mind killing PCs (too much), but the mentioned troll slayer acted very much in character (albeit stupidly so) and I respect that.

Again. doing it your way totally makes sense too. Feeling much less defensive now...

Yep, I understand what you're saying. I just prefer not to rely on chance, when it's a perfect situation for narrative.

Certainly you might not want to kill the Trollslayer for doing something in character. So, a lucky roll from the Troll *could* kill the PC, regardless of your desire. I tend to roll most of my dice in the open, so it makes it hard to fudge rolls. In this instance, therefore, the power of narrating what happens ...

"The Troll gives the Trollslayer a few more whacks to make sure he's not moving, and then picks up the Trollslayer and tries to decide which part to eat first."

Have the Troll spend a couple rounds sniffing and examining the Trollslayer. Or, the Troll could carry the Slayer to his cookfire, taking him time, etc. Plenty of ways to narrate the Troll doing something that won't kill the Slayer. Or, like I mentioned, the Troll goes ahead and starts eating a limb, without killing the Slayer. After all, the Troll probably doesn't really care if what he eats is alive or dead, so long as it isn't trying to get away while he eats it. Maybe the Troll thinks of himself as a gourmet, and stuff the Trollslayer into a pot and seasons the pot with things (mushrooms, dead rats, etc). You can get very creative and it can be fun.

You *could* roll, but just like there is a chance the Troll could miss, there is also a high probability the Troll's roll could kill the Slayer before his friends arrive. I like narrating the effects more than relying on the dice when I can. I view the game more as a story, and I and my players find such narration is usually more interesting than a dice roll (unless it is a particularly interesting roll)

I'm just throwing out advice from my personal experience, of course. It's not a knock on you or your style, so don't what I'm saying wrong. I'm just suggesting, if you haven't done so, perhaps try adding more narration at points like this and see if it increases your groups enjoyment.

Hahaha, this is a funny thread to me. Maybe I'm harsh but your Troll Slayer is totally destroyed at my table. After he dropped, with no other targets in sight, it would take exactly 1 second for the troll to fall on him and mutilate him in the most ferocious scene imaginable.

And hey, win for the Troll Slayer too. That's his goal, right?