Small Unit Tactics

By Lynata, in Dark Heresy House Rules

Ave Imperator, all!

I've come to sort of appreciate DW's Horde rules for what they are, but remain convinced that they are utterly unsuitable for small squads of more professional troops. As part of a somewhat larger project, I would now like to present an alternate system for the simulation of such groups, which may be requisitioned by or seconded to the player characters - perhaps even permanently, though that would be something more suitable for Ascended characters.

The basic idea behind this system originated from a post on "Goons rules" by Svarte Hanske on the Rogue Trader forum, as seen here .

The goal of this concept is to provide "Hordes" that appear more competent whilst still not stealing the limelight from the player characters, and simultaneously keeping dice rolls to a minimum. This is just a first raw draft, but I would appreciate any comments that might come to mind. Be it because these "minions" appear over- or perhaps underpowered, because I may have missed something, or because someone has a cool idea that could be added.

Thanks in advance!

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Small Unit Tactics

A group of up to 4 subordinate NPCs is accompanying the player character, assisting her in battle. During each round of combat, these squad members will attempt to engage the first available enemy in range and line of sight. If a particularly large and menacing enemy is on the field of battle, the squad may instead focus on him and ignore smaller targets, for better or for worse.

The squad’s initiative is primarily determined by veterancy, but can be influenced by the commanding character. Militia units roll 1d10, Troops roll 1d10+1 and Elites roll 1d10+2. If the player character in charge of the unit has the Command skill, each rank confers a further +1.
Squad Traits and situational conditions determined by the GM may also modify the unit’s initiative roll.

Squad Attacks

During the unit’s turn, the player character in charge rolls a d6 for every squad member. Both success and resulting damage are determined by this result, depending on the squad’s veterancy:

Militia (e.g. Civilians, Conscripts, Frateris Militia)
On a roll of 6, the squad member’s attack succeeds and deals damage as per a single attack of their weapon, substituting a 3 for each d10. The maximum of wounds inflicted by the attack is capped at 1. A squad member’s attack may be parried or dodged, depending on the weapon.

Troops (e.g. Battle Sisters, Guardsmen, Mercenaries)
On a roll of 5, substitute a 3 for each d10. The maximum of wounds is capped at 1.
On a roll of 6, substitute a 6 for each d10. The maximum of wounds is capped at 2.

Elite (e.g. Celestians, Space Marines, Storm Troopers)
On a roll of 4, substitute a 3 for each d10. The maximum of wounds is capped at 1.
On a roll of 5, substitute a 6 for each d10. The maximum of wounds is capped at 2.
On a roll of 6, substitute a 9 for each d10. The maximum of wounds is capped at 3.

Attacks on the Squad

Each squad member may be picked as an individual target. Depending on their veterancy, the squad member may attempt to dodge or parry the attack, but this is included in the attacker’s WS/BS Test.

Militia
Militia units are often too inexperienced to fully utilize cover and keep their calm under fire. Any successful attack on a squad member confers an automatic hit, resolved as per the normal rules for dealing damage. The squad member will die when his wound pool reaches 0.

Troops
Experienced soldiers often seek protection behind cover or move fast to avoid getting hit. Any successful attack with at least 5 points below the threshold confers a hit, resolved as per the normal rules for dealing damage. The squad member will be incapacitated when his wound pool reaches 0, and die when his wound pool reaches -3.

Elite
Veterans of countless battles and a gruelling training regime, these warriors pose even harder opponents. Any successful attack has to be at least 10 points below the threshold to confer a hit, resolved as per the normal rules for dealing damage. The squad member will be incapacitated when his wound pool reaches 0, and die when his wound pool reaches -5.

Area of Effect Weapons
Weapons that utilize the Blast or Flame special qualities targeting a squad member always hit their target, provided it is not protected by suitable cover (GM fiat).

Different Orders

As a Full Action, the player character in charge of the squad may command an individual or every member of the unit to perform a different task:

  • Focus Fire: The squad or a single member of the squad concentrate their attacks on a specific target called out by the commanding player character.
    Requirements: Troops or Elite veterancy. Target must not be the obvious choice for the squad.
    Condition: Penalty of -1 to the d6 result to hit. Damage is resolved as per the original result.
  • Suppressive Fire: The squad or a single member of the squad attempt to lay down suppressive fire. For every participating squad member using a ranged weapon, all characters in the target area suffer a -2 penalty to their BS Tests. A squad member using a heavy ranged weapon capable of fully automatic fire confers a -4 penalty instead.
    Requirements: Squad members must possess a ranged weapon.
    Condition: The squad members bound by this task will not directly attack an enemy, thus causing no damage.
  • Fire Support: The squad attempts to drive the enemy into the guns of the player character and his allies. For every squad member, the player character in charge of the unit and any other player character in close vicinity gain +2 to their BS Tests.
    Requirements: Troops or Elite veterancy. Squad members must possess a ranged weapon.
    Condition: The squad members bound by this task will not directly attack an enemy, thus causing no damage.
  • Special Action: The player character in charge of the squad may order one or more individual squad members to perform a special action, provided they have the necessary skill and/or equipment. Examples include administering medical aid, operating a terminal or opening a door in the following round.
    Requirements: Squad member must possess the appropriate skill/equipment.
    Condition: Any attacks made on this squad member gain a +10 bonus as long as he performs the special action. The squad member will not attack until the round after the special action has been completed or is no longer possible.

The commanding player character may, at any time, order the squad or an individual squad member to abandon his task by investing another Full Action.

Template Example

Name: Guardsman Fennik, 118th Merovech Mechanized
Veterancy: Troops (initiative 1d10+1)
Resilience: AP 4, TB 3
Wounds: 10 (incapaticated at 0, dead at -3)
Weapon: Lasgun, 6/9/- E, 0 Pen (3+3 on roll of 5, 6+3 on roll of 6)

I understand the idea but I think you are over complicating some things and still underestimating the Horde rules.

Some suggestion:
There is no need to add in an init roll. Just have the troops act on commanders init/2 That will help keep things rolling by avoiding extra rolls. Allow a challenging command test to instead act at commanders init -1.

Don't break with the system and add in D6's, it is unnecessary. A D5 or D10 should be perfectly fine.

Troop quality: Again don't break with the system. Keep it simple, Poor, Common, Good, Best.

Don't bother with negatives wounds or crits. Everyone dies or is incapacitated at 0. Too much bookkeeping is bad.

Base any stats on Quality then add talents and skills as needed.
My suggestion for base stats:

Quality / Wounds / Soak / To Hit / Any Other Stat
Poor / 1 / 2 / 20 / 20
Common / 5 / 3 / 30 / 25
Good / 10 / 5 / 35 / 30
Best / 15 / 6 / 40 / 35

Quality modifiers for the really special troops
Veteran + 2 to all
Elite + 4 to all
Unique + 8 to all

ItsUncertainWho said:

There is no need to add in an init roll. Just have the troops act on commanders init/2 That will help keep things rolling by avoiding extra rolls. Allow a challenging command test to instead act at commanders init -1.

You're right, these initiative rolls can be avoided. I guess I would use either your idea in its entirety, or a mix that allows Command skill ranks to confer a flat bonus instead of requiring a dice roll. In case of the former, would you think a failed Command Test should be able to "make things worse"? Or should the Test simply be considered standard when a character has the skill?

In a way, testing for Command only "moves" the roll from initiative to the skill (unless the character has more than one squad under his control, requiring more than one initiative roll). Yet I admit I like the idea of a Command Test, too. Mhm. Could even use Degrees of Success to alter the squad's position in the "queue".

ItsUncertainWho said:

Don't break with the system and add in D6's, it is unnecessary. A D5 or D10 should be perfectly fine.

Alright. You're already the second person stating this, so I'll yield. The d6 was more of a "feeling" thing on my part, and because the original idea (see link in the first post) did so as well, but I see your point regarding the system. d5 or d10 it is, then.

ItsUncertainWho said:

Troop quality: Again don't break with the system. Keep it simple, Poor, Common, Good, Best.

Mhmm, that sounds a lot like commodities, though, less like proper soldiers - just doesn't quite ring right. Was this how the mass combat units were called in Battlefleet Koronus? Amazon still hasn't delivered my copy yet - apparently there's a greater demand for this one book than the publisher can cope with (which is probably good for FFG, but bad for me)...

ItsUncertainWho said:

Don't bother with negatives wounds or crits. Everyone dies or is incapacitated at 0. Too much bookkeeping is bad.

That's intended to keep NPCs "retrievable". This system aims for more "personal" minions, and both player as well as GM should talk about what the squad is made up of. Ideally, each squadmate will receive his own personality and behavior pattern, even a rough history. A connection between the player in charge of the squad and its members is encouraged, which means they should have at least a chance to survive an attack that renders them neutralized - whilst at the same time still being likely to get killed. Grimdark etc.

In the end, it's not really additional bookkeeping - I am not expecting people to keep track of the squad members once they are incapacitated. Someone going into 0 or below is simply removed from combat. Negative wounds only serve to give him a chance to survive heavily wounded, in case the last attack falls somewhere between 0 and the "KIA threshold".

Sorry if that wasn't clear in the document. If it is too vague I can fix that!

ItsUncertainWho said:

My suggestion for base stats:

More wounds, definitively - these guys aren't intended to become one-hit kills, unless they are really, really unlucky. Ideally, they should take at least 2-3 hits from a common weapon before going down. Or was your "Soak" only identical to TB, meaning armour would be added on top of it? This is probably something that will require some playtesting, anyways ...

ItsUncertainWho said:

Quality modifiers for the really special troops

Just to clarify, your previous row was basically just determining the unit's basic member physiology and equipment quality level, whilst this one gives an "experience bonus"?

I may keep the system a little more open, with a couple "Squad Traits" to confer special abilities or rules, but in the end it would still require a bit of improvisation, i.e. the GM fudging the numbers here and there until it feels right, instead of selecting from a pool of pre-fabricated sets. There's just too many different kinds of units in 40k to cover them all, or I'd blow it out of proportion. Squad members have only three stats (unless I let them roll Skill Tests too, hmm ... worth a thought), but a a simple +1 on one of them can already make a unit appear much more individual.

Thanks for the feedback!

Lynata said:

In case of the former, would you think a failed Command Test should be able to "make things worse"? Or should the Test simply be considered standard when a character has the skill?

Could even use Degrees of Success to alter the squad's position in the "queue".

My idea was that as a Command test gives the player more of a sense of "these are my people."

I like the idea of the DoS/DoF modifying the Init. That way the squad could end up going before the player or just get completely behind everyone else.

Lynata said:

Mhmm, that sounds a lot like commodities, though, less like proper soldiers - just doesn't quite ring right. Was this how the mass combat units were called in Battlefleet Koronus?

I view these types of npc's as commodities, no different than a special weapon or other piece of equipment. That doesn't mean they are not proper soldiers. The idea is similar to how it is handled in RT.

Lynata said:

That's intended to keep NPCs "retrievable". This system aims for more "personal" minions, and both player as well as GM should talk about what the squad is made up of. Ideally, each squadmate will receive his own personality and behavior pattern, even a rough history. A connection between the player in charge of the squad and its members is encouraged, which means they should have at least a chance to survive an attack that renders them neutralized - whilst at the same time still being likely to get killed. Grimdark etc.

In the end, it's not really additional bookkeeping - I am not expecting people to keep track of the squad members once they are incapacitated. Someone going into 0 or below is simply removed from combat. Negative wounds only serve to give him a chance to survive heavily wounded, in case the last attack falls somewhere between 0 and the "KIA threshold".

Sorry if that wasn't clear in the document. If it is too vague I can fix that!

I did say dead or incapacitated.

After a fight I would just make a Toughness test against anyone who went to 0. If they pass they survived, just with some metal bits the next time they are seen. If they took damage over double their wounds, they are fertilizer.

Lynata said:

More wounds, definitively - these guys aren't intended to become one-hit kills, unless they are really, really unlucky. Ideally, they should take at least 2-3 hits from a common weapon before going down. Or was your "Soak" only identical to TB, meaning armour would be added on top of it? This is probably something that will require some playtesting, anyways ...

By "Soak" I meant TB + AP already added, so less needs to be thought about. Any Pen would bypass the combined number just to keep things moving.

This is one of a few different ways I have used to make quick and dirty NPC's and enemies on the fly. You seem to want a more long term commitment to your meat shields than I do.

Lynata said:

Just to clarify, your previous row was basically just determining the unit's basic member physiology and equipment quality level, whilst this one gives an "experience bonus"?

I may keep the system a little more open, with a couple "Squad Traits" to confer special abilities or rules, but in the end it would still require a bit of improvisation, i.e. the GM fudging the numbers here and there until it feels right, instead of selecting from a pool of pre-fabricated sets. There's just too many different kinds of units in 40k to cover them all, or I'd blow it out of proportion. Squad members have only three stats (unless I let them roll Skill Tests too, hmm ... worth a thought), but a a simple +1 on one of them can already make a unit appear much more individual.

The modifiers are just to make special "snowflakes" if you like, or to handle different units that may be significantly better than someone of a similar quality. "Red Shirts" for NPC's or quick stats for when the Scum decides to pick a fight with an Arbities patrol because he "needs some action."

Some examples:
Gangers = Poor 1 / 2 / 20 / 20
PDF = Common 5 / 3 / 30 / 25
Planetary Governors PDF Bodyguard = Common Unique 13 / 11 / 38 / 33
New IG = Common 5 / 3 / 30 / 25
IG = Common Veteran 7 / 5 / 32 / 27
Well Equipped Mercenaries = Good Elite 14 / 9 / 39 / 34
Arbities Kill Team = Best 15 / 6 / 40 / 35
=][= Stormtroopers = Best Veteran 17 / 8 / 42 / 37
Sororitas = Best Elite 19 / 10 / 44 / 39
Astartes = Best Unique 23 / 14 / 48 / 43

The PDF Bodyguard example: Common Unique

Common would be 5 / 3 / 30 / 25
Unique adds +8
So they would look like: 13 / 11 / 38 / 33 == 13 Wounds / 11 Soak (AP + TB) / 38 To Hit (WS or BS) / 33 for a base stat (+ any skill you assign if they need it)

Slap a weapon stat on them and they are ready to rock and roll faster than your players can figure out if they are going to go left or right.

These stats are really for throw away characters, quick, dirty, and beatable by smart players. The trade off is I don't have to work to build them in any detail. They only roll a skill if they must and I can make a bunch of generic gangers (Poor), a few gang enforcers (Poor Elite), and a gang leader (Poor Unique) in no time.

By no means are these perfect, or truly representative of really elite units(Astartes). But it works if you need speed over accuracy. GM fiat is a large part of this method. So if an Astartes hits 0 wounds, he may not be dead but rather, he has left the imediate area and is no longer actively participating in the current engagement, for whatever reason.

ItsUncertainWho said:

My idea was that as a Command test gives the player more of a sense of "these are my people."

I like the idea of the DoS/DoF modifying the Init. That way the squad could end up going before the player or just get completely behind everyone else.


ItsUncertainWho said:

After a fight I would just make a Toughness test against anyone who went to 0. If they pass they survived, just with some metal bits the next time they are seen. If they took damage over double their wounds, they are fertilizer.

ItsUncertainWho said:

You seem to want a more long term commitment to your meat shields than I do.

You seem to have created a nice system there yourself - it's a different approach, but for the purpose you mentioned it sounds more than sufficient.

Again, thanks for the input!

Using d6 for NPCs are great in a number of ways:

1. Player Characters use d10s, often lots of them. Now they can roll all their d10s and their "goon's" d6s at the same time.

2. d6 is used in the Warhammer 40k strategy game, which these role-playing games are all based upon.

3. Most everyone have easy access to lots of d6s (loot boardgames, yatzi etc), not everyone have lots of d10s (unless you also play World of Darkness:) ).

4. d6 takes less space than d10. Easier to toss 100d6 than 100d10 at the same time.

...but if you rather want to use d10, I can't physically stop you from doing that ;)

I've also been thinking on ways to improve the "Goons-rules". "Goons" was mostly for random nabs that are easy to acquire in large numbers. A quick way to improve them, lift them from Goon-status to more proper soldier-status is to let the unit use d10 for damage. In effect rolling the unit's number of d6s, and adding the successes to a d10 roll which then gives the combined damage from that unit.

Example: 20 guardsmen with lasguns, semi-bursting, with skillnumber 5. Rolling 40 d6s, where 5+ counts as hit and damage. 40d6 would constitute about 13 hits. 13+1d10 = final damage to a player character.

So what we have here are some examples of different approaches to mass combat. Maybe we'll end up with something insanely awesome, or develop further in each direction :)

ItsUncertainWho said:

I understand the idea but I think you are over complicating some things and still underestimating the Horde rules.

Some suggestion:
There is no need to add in an init roll. Just have the troops act on commanders init/2 That will help keep things rolling by avoiding extra rolls. Allow a challenging command test to instead act at commanders init -1.

Don't break with the system and add in D6's, it is unnecessary. A D5 or D10 should be perfectly fine.

Troop quality: Again don't break with the system. Keep it simple, Poor, Common, Good, Best.

Don't bother with negatives wounds or crits. Everyone dies or is incapacitated at 0. Too much bookkeeping is bad.

Base any stats on Quality then add talents and skills as needed.
My suggestion for base stats:

Quality / Wounds / Soak / To Hit / Any Other Stat
Poor / 1 / 2 / 20 / 20
Common / 5 / 3 / 30 / 25
Good / 10 / 5 / 35 / 30
Best / 15 / 6 / 40 / 35

Quality modifiers for the really special troops
Veteran + 2 to all
Elite + 4 to all
Unique + 8 to all

Consider these yoinked. I like your modifications to Lynata's proposed system immensely. My only change will be to the quality modifiers:

Blooded +2
Veteran +4
Elite +6
Heroic +8
Legendary +10
Unique +12

This adds a little more granularity for fine-tuning the minions stats. I'll probably end up using this system for on the fly NPCs as well. Thanks for starting the thread Lynata and ItsUncertainWho for modifying the rough draft into something I'm in love with. happy.gif

Black_Kestrel said:

Consider these yoinked. I like your modifications to Lynata's proposed system immensely. My only change will be to the quality modifiers:

Blooded +2
Veteran +4
Elite +6
Heroic +8
Legendary +10
Unique +12

This adds a little more granularity for fine-tuning the minions stats. I'll probably end up using this system for on the fly NPCs as well. Thanks for starting the thread Lynata and ItsUncertainWho for modifying the rough draft into something I'm in love with. happy.gif

Glad someone else can find a use for the idea.

I have to say your expanded modifier list certainly isn't bad at all and will probably find it's way into my notes. gran_risa.gif