Is there any way to use a two-handed melee weapon in one hand? I ask because I am basically playing an ogryn (I rolled a hive mutant, my rolls ended up giving me brute and unnatural strength). Brute actually gives a -10 penalty to agility, which hurts a lot. Makes it harder to dodge and such. So I want to use a sword in one hand for the +10 parry bonus and a great weapon (axe or mace or something) in the other hand. I really should be able to, since my guy has a strength bonus of 10, but I figured I'd ask about rules for it cause I don't see any.

Wow. I guess I'd just houserule it.

Some P&Ps have rules for weapons wielded by characters of a different size category.
In your case, it would make light weapons (knives etc) unusable, turn normal weapons into light ones (gain "Balanced"?), and two-handed weapons into normal (remove "Unbalanced" quality or, if "Unwieldy", change it to "Unbalanced"?).

Additionally, you could think about coming up with a completely new set of stats for two-handed weapons which could not be wielded by normal humans.

Basically the way I've seen it done before is that an unweildly or unbalanced weapon would still be unbalanced or unweildly in one hand, all the added size / strength would allow is for you to use the weapon in one hand. I'm pretty sure that there are rules for using a 2 handed weapon in one hand, it opposes some kind of rediculus penalty like a -30 but if you character is strong enough to feasibly do it, I don't see anyway reason why not.

Mostly just talk with your GM to see if you can do it, and if you can't find actual rules, talk to the GM and figure something out that is resonable for the both of you.

Shields, swords, axes and great weapons all ask the player to consider a trade between the weapons offensive and defensive capability. Great weapons, being the most damaging of the lot, also have the higher cost to defence: In exchange for their massive damage (for a primitive weapon), they make the character unable to parry.

Why should you get out of this tradeoff simply because you are a very strong mutant ?

Your higher SB already means you will deal more damage than other characters wielding the same weapon.

If you want to go defensive, get a shield and axe. If you want to go fully offensive, get a great weapon and accept that you can't parry. If you want something in between, replace the shield with a sword or axe.

If you have the money, consider a chain weapon. Or, if you are really rich, a power weapon. If you get hold of an Astartes weapon, especially if it's a powerful one, pass it on to your inquisitor (or anyone else you trust to get it back to its home chapter) ASAP. You would not want to be caught up in the trouble that using it would bring you, even if you weren't a mutant.

As for the -10AG. You made a mutant character, live with the problems the mutation causes. Or die to them and make a new character.

Are you are mutant or an ogryn? The stats for No1h3r3's ogryns gives them the hulking trait and if you are hulking (i.e. really really big) I'd say go for it.

The fan suppliment is 'Something Other Than Human' and I think you can get it at Dark Reign or No1h3r3's webpage and is a great suppliment. It has stats for ogryns, ratlings and squ... CRASH! DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA!.

THAT HAS BEEN RETCONNED AND THE RETCON POLICE HAVE MADE ZAKALWE PAY FOR HIS HERESY! DOWNLOADING THAT SUPPLIMENT IS HERESY!

Bilateralrope said:

I think you could balance such an advantage with other tradeoffs. Consider it: Being such a bestial creature means any kind of armour would have to be custom-crafted specifically for you. Your hands and fingers would be too thick to deal with common ranged weapons...

If a player does such rolls that just scream "Hulk" and ends up effectively playing an ogrynish mutant, I'd say let him do so properly. Come up with a few disadvantages that balance the advantages. All that matters is that the "end package" looks and feels right.

Perhaps he, being a mutant, does not have any money and all his equipment is procured by the Inquisitor who "owns" him. If so, the GM has some control over what kind of stuff the character gets (i.e. the player can ask but doesn't get all he wants) - and I'd say a "pseudo-ogryn" wielding a two meter mono-sword sounds much more fitting than one who carries a one meter powerblade.

Meaning, if you're worried about SB bonus, just make sure the character only uses "appropriate" weapons. Cash in on that "primitive brute" image. Or balance it with limitations on intelligence and dexterity. I'm sure there are some options that would be approved by everyone in the group. Characters tend to specialize, anyways, and will end up being superior in their chosen realm. The only really important thing is that nobody feels as if he'd been made "impotent" by another PC - but as I said, I think this could be dealt with.

Just an opinion, of course. I admit I'm kind of fond of advocating "customizations" of the RAW to better suit the image, so ... preferences.

Hi Nigh7Gaun7,

I think you should ask your GM about this. After all, s/he is the final word in all things that are house rules.

In general, I would allow it under the conditions you describe...but you still would neet "Ambidextrous" and "Two-Weapon Wielder" to have the full benefit of it.

Bilateralrope said:

I don't think you understood what I was asking at all. The point is that my character is very large and very strong and thus a normal knife is very small and hard for him to use, and he should be able to use weapons that more normal people can't. I would argue with the inability of great weapons to parry in the first place; varangian axes and two handed swords are still capable of blocking blows. But even if you say that great weapons can't can't parry for some dumb reason, for my guy a great weapon isn't as "great" as it would be for a normal person and I want to reflect this. If you read my post, I know there's a -10 penalty to Agility. That's fine. I am trying to ameliorate the impact of it by using a second weapon to parry. You can't even argue with that cause it's allowed under the current rules.

If I were your GM I'd let you wield a Great Weapon in 1h, but I would require you to be Hulking in exchange.

Being Hulking gives a small movement advantage, but it grants all attacks against you a +10% to hit you. I believe you also get a penalty to stealth and such since there's just so much more of you to hide. Last, but definitely not least, all your gear, your armor and even your vehicles would need to be resized, and probably far more expensive to get ahold of. Cover is also less likely to actually...uh...cover you.

Overall, being able to hit REALLY hard in melee seems like a fair trade for all of these penalties. Even with a TB of 4-5 or so, the lack of armor options and the fact that you'll attract bullets like a magnet means you'll have to play very smart when the group goes into a fight. And even if you're a sanctioned abhuman such as an Ogryn you're likely to be more of a burden outside of combat then most.

So yeah, you'd hit almost as hard as a space marine in melee...but I wouldn't give you good odds on surviving very long...

But a Great Sword in 1h? Definitely doable.

Bilateralrope said:

I'm with Bilateralrope here. This just sounds like power-gaming extremis... "I should be able to..." No. The Brute mutation is balanced as is, the drawback is not there to justify additional benefits. You're already playing a character at the limit of what I'd allow.

The 1h sword in DH assumes you can comfortably wield it. That's why it's Balanced. Now get a sword your size and there you are. No different weapon die with all the benefits - higher chance of Righteous Fury and all that - these are for it being Unwieldy and requiring two hands to use. Any additional damage will be in the form of a static bonus: your SB.

Due to your SB you're already doing 5+ more damage than someone without Brute and Unnatural Strength (x2). These 5+ damage will be entirely into wounds/criticals. It will show often enough how strong you are.

Just for reference, Space Marines get their higher melee weapon damage only from their (Unnatural) Strength too.

• DW Astartes Power Sword vs. DH Power Sword: +1 damage.
• DW Astartes Chain Sword vs. DH Chain Sword: +1 damage.

Remember Astartes weapons are Best Quality upwards.

Chester said:

I really wouldn't read too much into it. Apart from both systems using different rules, the idea that Space Marines are using the same weapon quality as a freshly conscripted Guardsman is silly - but on the other hand, the same goes for SoB, and that Inquisitors would not have access to the best equipment in existence is just as ridiculous (Jokaero?!). Aside from that, both systems were not really created with compatibility in mind, either way.

PS: The Astartes Chainsword also has much more Penetration.

That's why orks now call their choppas astartes choppa!

I agree with Chester, you have already bonus to melee damage.