I was watching "The Sky at Night" last night, a long running (VERY long running) BBC TV show presented by monocle wearing national treasure Sir Patrick Moore. For those not familiar with the show, it's a low-budget but well presented guide to astronomy, with the emphasis upon guiding novices in the science into getting involved. Brian May (of Queen fame) appears on it a lot, being a keen astronomer (as well as a 40k fan, incidentally.)

Anyway, last night a lot of the show was discussing the constellations visible over summer. Talk turned to black holes, and the relative lack of easily available visible black holes. There was general discussion about the topic, and reference to the supermassive black hole said to lurk in the centre of the milky way galaxy.

It occurred to me that I am not really aware of any detailed treatments of black holes in the 40k canon. Does anyone know of any?

There's a lot of warp rifts (Eye of Terror, the Maelstrom) and anomalies (like the Hadex anomaly) but I've never understood these to be black holes in the classic sense. My view is always that these are distinct and seperate phenomena; black holes are caused by the physical laws of the real universe, as opposed to warp rifts, which are created by the weird rules contained within the warp.

Or am I wrong on that? Are black holes the same thing as warp rifts? Personally I think they're not, but I'd be interested to hear other people's views, and I'm certainly prepared to be proven wrong!

And how would black holes affect travel and spacecraft in 40k?

Any thoughts?

Lightbringer said:

I keep them as 'normal' stellar phenomnomnomnominom. An Ad-Mech research station sat outside the event horizon (obviously inspired by the Disney movie) makes a great backdrop to horror games.

They're probably a hazard in the warp, similar to stellar bodies.

fact for the day: Sir Patrick Moore is the longest serving TV presenter ever. And The Sky at Night is the longest running TV series.

Siranui said:

Yeah, I agree with all that, Siranui, that's exactly how I see them.

Further Moore fact: Sir Patrick is also a gifted amateur xylophone player. As well as being endearingly mad as a tram full of herons. .

If you read portions of the new Dark Eldar Codex, you will find out that they have been able to 'weaponize' them. Could make an interesting centerpiece for a campaign, though one probably better suited for Rogue Trader.

">BZZZZZZTT!

>BLACK HOLES DO NOT EXIST!

>BZZZZZZTT!

>YOU SHALL BE PURGED!"

-Unknown Adeptus Mechanicus Magos

cobrausn said:

I have not read the new DE codex. What does this consist of?

from france

black holes are part of humanity where the light never shine

numb3rc said:

It is actually quite good. I recommend getting it, not only because the narrative is good, but because the rules are actually somewhat balanced and interesting.

What it essentially amounts to is that the DE can not only trap existing black holes in specially designed 'coffins', but they can actually create them as needed. There is a missile variant on one of their flyers that triggers the creation of a small black hole upon impact, which is released inside a containment field. The target is on the inside of the containment field.

It also mentions that ocasionally the containment field fails, and the resulting black hole removes a large chunk of the planet's surface, wiping out everything within miles. This usually includes the fighter that launched the missile. I'm sure the DE actually consider this funny.

I seem to recall reading somewhere that Romulans in the Star Trek universe use "contained" black holes to power their warp-capable starships (in place of the matter/antimatter drives used by the Federation). Sounds like a good experimental (and helladangerous) project for a renegade Heretek or Logician in DH ...

Interesting, Adeptus-B... I wonder if the Dark Eldar use of weaponised black holes is something of a "shout out" to Star Trek, then? Given that the Dark Eldar are the closest thing in 40k to Romulans...

I very much like what GW did with the DE in the last release. The've got a nice consistant, fitting style (Cenobyte chic, wholy underused previously) and so great back ground. Plus lots of their models are really nice, if I had limitless cash they'd be perfect for generic badguys as well as DE themselves.

Bit worrying that it's easier for the DE to make a terminatus weapon than it is to make an anti tank missile, but I guess they'll always need slaves so destroying human planets isn't in their interests. It does go quite nicely with how high tech they are supposed to be.

As for Blackholes in space, I can't remember if the fluff mentioned the galactic core having a lot of them or not. Wouldn't be mentioned much now if they were. They aren't really going to figure much just because there formation is so slow that it's not going surprise existing populations but may effect warp travel, if planets have a warp pressence then it makes sense that black holes do. Perhaps even helping to create warp currents or storms. Don't know anything for certain but could be nice plot hooks.

Lightbringer said:

There is nothing new under the sun, whether or not it implodes under its' own mass.

Face Eater said:

I've always found this quite endearing about the DE (as an enemy, anyway). They could annihilate your planet utterly if they really cared to (and ocasionally, when they get really bored , they do...), but to them its a challenge to design weaponry that only kills precisely what it needs to. Don't want to blow up the tank and kill all the nearby potential slaves...

cobrausn said:

And, if they kill you too quickly, they don't get enough pain from you to hold off Slaanesh.

Face Eater said:

Yeah, you've got to hand it to Phil Kelly and Jes Goodwin, the latest DE Codex was a note-perfect example of how to write good background material for 40k. It's one of the finest GW 40k books in a long time. They should let Phil Kelly write all 40k codices.

Lightbringer said:

It'd be better than letting Matt Ward near them (my Blood Angels will never ally with Necrons!).

Bilateralrope said:

Where's the fun in killing people if you can't see them suffer?