Hello everyone, I'm a French player. I've owned and enjoyed the game for a few years and played a number of variations (from 1 to 8 players, with only the base games or with all the expansions I own...). However, the more games my friends and I play, the more we stumble across little problems. I've gathered our questions and come to you as an emissary, so that you can give your opinion about our questions Thanks for your time !

Let's begin with the big one. Two weeks ago, we played a game with only the base game and Innsmouth. We put Cthulhu as the Ancient One and Dagon & Hydra as the Heralds. We came across a fun situation :

- Dagon and Hydra each add a DOR token to the track at the beginning of the game. That makes 2.

- We drew the regular Mythos card during setup. I remember which one it was : I still see it in my nightmares. It was Gathering Storm ( http://www.arkhamhorrorwiki.com/Gathering_Storm! ). A portal opened at Devil Reef, and since we were 5 players, we put 2 monsters on it. They happened to be one moon and one cross... so they immediately jumped into the vortex and added 2 DOR tokens. That makes 4.

- Obviously, the headline told us to add one more DOR token. That makes 5 out of 6.

By this point, we were all exchanging gazes, wondering if the Great Cthulhu really was enough of a jerk to make us almost lose during setup. But that was only the beginning... because Dagon makes us draw two Mythos cards at the beginning of the game. So, still a bit stunned, we drew again.

It was a Strange Sightings (http://www.arkhamhorrorwiki.com/Strange_Sightings!) card, putting six more monsters (because of Hydra) on the gate.

Now here's the actual question. Does the monster surge resolves before or after the monster movement ? The rules say gate first, then movement, then text of the card (correct me immediately if I'm wrong, because that would kinda defeat the whole point of the question). However, we wondered if the monster surge was meant to replace the gate, because that's usually how it goes and the headline does make a point of saying there's no gate, as if it was meant to be resolved first. If it were indeed resolved first, then all the monsters that were able to would follow their friends into the vortex (since Strange Sightings moves all the monsters) and wake up Cthulhu right on the spot.

We decided to apply the rules and say the monsters didn't move right now, because we wanted to see if we could recover from these incredible odds, but deep down, we felt it would have been hilarious if Cthulhu ate us even before we were able to do anything.

Oubviously, we got our butt kicked anyway, but the point still stands : do the monsters of Strange Sightings' monster surge move immediately or not ?

Okay, now that this is out of the way, some random questions...

- Michael McGlen's personal story : he fails if he gains $5 all at once, not, for example, five times $1. Correct ?

- The Bank Loan : putting aside the very easy exploit of taking the money then giving everything to somebody else, I was wondering if you could choose between spending $1 or discarding all your items. In other words, can you choose to discard your equipment even if you've got money left ? That seems to me like another kind of exploit, since you could throw away things like Joining the Winning Team and keep 10 shiny dollars.

- Flying monsters move whenever you draw a gate with and orange background, not only when a seal is actually torn by the gate burst. Correct ?

- Does giving clue tokens to another investigator (via rare game effects like Dunwich's coded messages) triggers Ghatanothoa's ability ? I'm thinking not, because trading isn’t usually considered as a “gain”, at least not as far as personal stories are concerned (or am I mistaken about this ?).

- Not really a rules question, but why in the name of the Elder Gods do the Ancient Ones’ “stirring in his slumber” abilities still apply when they aren’t slumbering anymore and are in fact very awake and squishing the investigators ? This caused some confusion.

- Are the investigators considered to be in the same area during the Final Battle, since they can trade items ? I’m asking this about effects like the Madness card Paranoia.

- Investigators casting Plague of Locusts are not exempted from the Stamina loss, are they ?

- Again about the Locusts : do the “damage” done to the monsters stack ? Is it possible to, say, cast it three turns in a row to defeat a 3 toughness monster ?

- Does Father Iwanicki allow you to discard a Curse if you have one when he joins ? I’m thinking yes, because else the encounter to get him at the Graveyard would be kinda stupid (“oh, I see you are Cursed, let me come with you, I’ll ensure this never happens again. Tough luck about this one, though”)

I think that’s about it for now. Thank you again and please forgive the language mistakes that have probably wormed their way into my questions

Hi there! Great to have you.

Good (first) question! I'm not sure if there is an official answer to resolving non-standard Mythos cards in some non-standard order, so I've been resolving them in the "normal" order:

1. gate first (Strange Sightings has none)
2. then clue
3. then monster movement
4. then special text, which in this case is the monster surge. At least that's how I see it.

You would not move this cluster of monsters at the end of setup. But it still looked like you were screwed. Yes, one of the only ways to lose the game during setup is with Dagon, Innsmouth, and an AO that will devour you upon awakening. Even then, there are countless other combinations that will do the deed by the end of turn 1.

Congratulations on finding one of the only situations where the order of non-standard Mythos cards is crucial.

(Now for your others)

• For McGlen, I've been playing that he has to receive $5+ in one go. Smaller sums can total more than $5.
• Here's my take on the Bank Loan: There is a Dunwich Injury card called Addiction, in which you have to pay $1 during upkeep or you have zero focus. I've played that you have to pay the $1, whether or not you intend on using your focus (because it is an addiction). If this is true, then it is the same situation for the Bank Loan, so you must pay the dollar if you have it. Of course, you could then just give away all the money and default anyway.
  
  A good house-rule to prevent this is to say that an investigator with a Bank Loan can't trade anything (or at least can't trade money).
  
• Correct: if your Mythos card this turn is a gate burst, then flying monsters will move during the monster move phase whether or not a gate is actually burst. Of course, if its symbol is also on the card, it doesn't move twice.
• I don't consider trading to be a gain. Otherwise, many investigators could pass their personal stories that require "gains" just by taking items from other investigators. Likewise, trading clues to Rex Murphy shouldn't cause him to gain a clue out of nowhere. Thematically, clues represent knowledge, and you can't take all of what someone knows and somehow know more. Plus, if someone's knowledge was tainted with Ghatanothoa's visage, then they'd already be dead. It shouldn't suddenly reveal the visage when it hadn't before.
• "Stir in slumber" uses artistic license. It's more thematic than saying, "this AO's ability is..." But yes, they are in effect all game. Don't forget about Quachil Uttaus's Dust deck!!!
• I consider them to be in the same space. If they can trade items, they're in the same space, so Paranoia should apply. There's nothing official on this (yet).
• No, they are eaten too. Use wisely. This is a great way to remove dangerous Cultists from the board without triggering their effects (Yig's, Eihort's, and Y'Golonac's are particularly bad).
• Not a single copy (of course), but I don't see why you couldn't cast multiple copies. Actually, having Zebulon Whateley as an ally may actually allow you to cast a single copy twice. Go for it!
• Okay, this is a little complicated. Ordinarily, an effect that prevents you from gaining something does not mean that you discard that something if you already have it when you trigger the effect. The problem with Curse is that the phrase "be Cursed" could mean "gain a curse" or it could mean "already have the status of cursed." In this case, it means the former, so it means that you simply cannot gain a curse card anymore. You do not lose a Curse that you already have when he joins.

I love questions! Keep 'em coming!

Let me answer your questions from top to bottom:

- I think monsters that appear from the monster surge caused by "Strange Sightings" do move. I thought that it would replace the gate opening, rather than an effect that occurs last.

- McGlen fails if he gets 5 bucks all at once.

- Haha, you discovered the Bank Loan exploit! Yes, you could indeed get away scot-free if you gave away all your items and suffer no penalty if you could not pay.

- Flying monsters move when a mythos card showing a gate burst occurs. An elder sign does not have to pop off.

- I don't think so because trading clue tokens is not the same as gaining clue tokens.

- Well....... "when the AO stirs in his/her slumber" is just a term that's used for "an effect that lasts for the entire game".

- In Final Battle, all investigators are considered in the same location.

- Nope the caster of the Plague of Locusts is not spared from the stamina loss.

- I suppose the damage from the Plague would stack if cast multiple times.

- I think Iwanicki rids the Curse if he joins you. This is not the case for the Third Eye however, which explicitly states that "if you are already Cursed, this card does not change that".

[Edit: Didn't see Tibs' response. Sorry for already answering a question that has been answered!]

Tibs said:

Not to mention some Relationship cards!

Haha, thank you for your quick answer

So yeah, too bad about Cthulhu But this seems to be the most logical way to do it, especially since if you begin adding little exceptions like this to a game that's already very rules-heavy, you may run out of Sanity even before you see the first monster...

We seem to agree about more or less everything. I just have to be a little more specific about the Locusts : is the toughness loss permanent, meaning you can weaken a monster on one turn and kill it on the next turn (or even a few turns later) ? This seems a bit tedious, since you'd have to keep track of the toughness of weakened monsters if you don't kill them right away. However, nothing seems to forbid it, so I guess it's allowed ^^ Oh, and of course this raises another question : if you weaken a monster with the Locusts and then kill it the old-fashioned way with your tommy gun, does it keep its weakened toughness when you spend trophies ? I'm guessing not, as it would be even MORE tedious to keep track of that...

Okay about Iwanicki. The funny thing is that I used more or less the same arguments as you when discussing this ambiguity with a friend (about the "be cursed" as the action to take a Curse, not the fact that you possess a Curse), but finally reached a different conclusion on the grounds of it being a bit illogical that he can protect you from Curses but not remove them, especially since he explicitely joins you if you already have a Curse But yeah, strictly speaking, the rules seem to say that he only protects an investigator against new Curses.

As for the "stirring in slumber" thing, your argument is valid. I just genuinely thought, the first time I laid eyes on an Ancient One's sheet, that it was meant to separate the Final Battle from the rest of the game.

Oh, a couple of new questions I had forgotten !

• Just wanted confirmation about Nodens' Nightgaunts ability : you still have to roll an Horror check before asking the nice little guy to drop you off into a gate, right ? The sheet explicitely says "instead of making a combat check". I'm just asking this because we had an ambiguity stemming from the (rather poor) french translation which said "au lieu de faire un combat contre une maigre bête de la nuit", litterally meaning "instead of battling a nightgaunt". This implied that the whole battle was skipped, whereas it doesn't seem to be the case with the English wording.

• On a similar note, can you intentionally fail a Combat check (or any check, in fact) even if you've got enough dice to pass it ? For example, can Tommy Muldoon throw himself into the arms of a Servant of the Outer Gods to pass his personal story without risking accidentally strangling it (I don't see how that could happen, but you get my point), or can an investigator let themselves be dropped in the nearest gate by a Nightgaunt even if Nodens is not the guardian (in which case the investigator just doesn't get to choose which gate they're dropped in) ?

• Another translation issue. A bit of context : the Fight stat is translated as "Combat" (meaning, well, combat) in French. The Combat checks are translated as... "Combat". Yes, this is mind-boggling. We had quite a few games sealing gates by shooting them with McGlen's tommy gun (my brother loves Michael McGlen) before we discovered this quirk. So when you see "Combat" on a French card, you have to use your best judgement to know if it's a Fight check or a Combat check. It's usually not that hard once you get the hang of it. Enter the Sledgehammer, which gives you bonuses to both Combat and Fight. The French card literally translates like this : "+3 to Fight checks against monsters [that is, Combat checks], +1 to other Fight checks [regular Fight checks]". Is this how it works in English ? I was under the impression that the Fight bonus and the Combat bonus were cumulative, and that the Fight bonus could be used for regular Fight checks in encounters. So either the French version cleared up the ambiguity thanks, ironically, to its poor translation, or it is just plain wrong.

Enjoy these questions, I don't think I've got more in stock (but then again, new ones could pop up anytime, what with me and my brother having very recently bough a few new expansions...)

Going to bed now, it's quite late here... Have a good day/morning/night/whatever, depending on where you live and when you read this post !

EDIT : Oh, another reply since I have begun typing this post ! Well, I guess my bed can wait a few more minutes.

As for the Bank Loan exploit, yeah, I've known about it for a while and houseruled it like many people : you can't trade when you've got a Loan ! The question was that even if you're not trading, could you choose to discard your items even if you've still got money ? I don't think it's supposed to work like this and Tibs made a sensible argument ^^

And crap, disagreement about Strange Sightings and Iwanicki Well, we'll discuss it tomorrow maybe, right now I am a bit tired

My two cents about the Strange sightings cards: I play by the rules, unless something else says they must be overcome by some special situation. So, I generally play the way Tibs plays, movement first, then surge.

Mi-go's way of reading the card is thematically brilliant (these sightings must have been sighted, right? I like the idea of a horde of monsters moving) but strategically could mean game over!

Nodens: I think the Sanity loss is caused by the visage of the monsters; since the wording says "instead of making a Combat check", I'd say you still have to do the Horror check.

As for failing a check on purpouse, no, you're not allowed not to roll. But you can maximize the opposite stat (i.e. Will if you want to lose a Fight check), and decide not to use weapon or items boosting the stat you'll have to check

Th Sledgehammer issue should be fixed in the coming FAQ (hopefully published in the MH box); it was said on this forum that you can have either the +3 to Combat or the +1 to Fight checks

"does it keep its weakened toughness when you spend trophies ?"

No - all monster trophies are spent at the toughness the monster would be if you killed it right now.

So, if you kill a cultist, and then the Festival (Environment) begins, you can spend it for one extra toughness. Conversely, if you kill a cultist while the Environment is in play, and then the environment ends, you only get to spend it at the regular toughness, not the toughness you actually killed it at.

It wouldn't be completely impossible to keep track of toughness-when-defeated, but it would be very fiddly and wouldn't really add much to the game.

I have nothing to add here, but, instead would like to ask for clarification on everyone's answers.

-Are you sure about Michael McGlen's personal story fail condition? He has to gain $5+ in one shot to fail? That's a very rare occurrence. In fact, the only thing I can think of that would give $5+ all at once is a bank loan. But taking out a loan is hardly a crime. If this really is the case, then his personal story is almost impossible to fail.

-About the Father Iwanicki encounter at the Graveyard. Are you saying that you have to gain a curse to take his ally card or you have to already have a curse to take his ally card? (aside from the Stamina or Sanity being 2 or lower)

-Lastly, I was going to attempt to answer Faxlo's bank loan question, but upon reading the Bank Loan card again, discovered that I had a question of my own. How does the "You cannot get another Bank Loan this game" part of the card work? The card sounds like it is contradicting itself. It sounds like if you are ever able to pay the full $10 back, you may draw another Bank Loan. However, "You cannot get another Bank Loan this game" is listed after the condition of rolling a 1-3. So how does it work? If you roll a 1-3 you can't ever get another bank loan? Or does that only apply if you discard all your items along with the bank loan card?

Hi everyone,

I too would like a couple of additional clarifications to the answers given here.

First, regarding the Plague of Locusts: According to Tibs, you would have to have multiple copies of the spell to cast multiple times, however, the spell itself does not list exhausting it as part of the casting cost. Is this a typo?

Second, regarding trading items and effects. What does this mean when playing with the Dark Pharaoh herald? When I trade exhibit items and unique items, does the receiving investigator suffer the penalties for gaining those items?

1. That's as much as anyone understand's about McGlen's story. Yes, that would make it hard to fail.
2. One of the conditions to obtain Iwanicki is to already be cursed (i.e. have a curse card).
3. The clause "you may not take out another Bank Loan" is a penalty for defaulting. Ordinarily you may take one out (but no more than one). If you pay it off, you can take one out again later. If you default, you can't take one out again. So rolling a 1–3 and not being able to pay will cause you to default.

To Pseudonym: it is a typo. All spells are exhaust to cast. Some even get discarded if they are successful.

For the Dark Pharaoh, I believe that even obtaining items from other players will cause you to check for sanity loss and curse

cim said:

I'm surprised to hear this. I thought a monster's toughness value remained whatever it was when you killed it. I agree that it makes things fiddly, though.

Thanks everyone for your answers !

About McGlen's story... well... last time we played, my brother got him after Dexter Drake got beautifully devoured (barely escaping an OW with 1 Sanity and 1 Stamina, exiting through a gate that had a Lloigor on it, drawing a Mythos card that moved Square monsters, bidding goodbye to the magician). The very first random encounter he got with the gangster (I forgot which one, sadly) nets him five bucks out of nowhere. So yeah, hard to fail, but definitely possible.

You may have noticed that we have tremendous luck in our games. In the same game, I had 8 clue tokens and a Blessing. 5 gates had already been sealed and I was about to exit R'lyeh. I got on the gate, rolled 1 die for my Fight -3, and 3 more thanks to the excess clues I had. Not even ONE was above 3. Sur enough, the Mythos card this turn was the environment that goes "The difficulty to close or seal gates to R'lyeh is increased by 1" ;_;

But I digress... So yeah, about Nodens, just wanted confirmation because the French sheet seems to go the other way... Thanks about the failed Evade check trick though, hadn't thought about that ! And as for voluntarily failing checks, yeah, that wouldn't be a very smart move from the investigator, but not using Tommy's rifle so that he would get devoured by the Servant of the Outer Gods isn't either That actually happened in the very same game, and the player (my other brother) had already been devoured once... with Silas xD Great fun when Ghatanothoa is the Ancient One and Tommy has to decide who will get the five free clues, since he's passed his personal story. Needless to say, there was a very high devour count on that game, including one on the very first turn... Ghatanothoa is awesome.

Musha Shukou said:

An encounter at the Journal makes you earn 5$ for an article. Asenath Waite joining your team makes you earn 10$. An encounter at the library makes you find 5$ in a book (IIRC). Some OW encounters make you earn some good money. And some other stuff scattered here and there. But yeah, it's quite rare

avec said:

as per Dunwich Horror rules. FAQ section pg 9

Q: When spending monster trophies, do you count any
modifiers to toughness currently in effect?
A: Yes, use the modified toughness. This bonus applies
to the use of any monster trophies spent at any location.

Tyrant242 said:

Ah, missed that. Thanks!

Julia said:

Would it be a good way to fix the text by writing :

"Fight +1 (like the skills)

+2 Combat check (like every other item)"

With that writing, you have +1 for your fight checks and +3 (+1+2) for your combat checks. Shouldn't be the good way to write it ? Or do some situations are different between the official text and mine ?

Hugues said:

In that case, you'd get a +1 to combat checks even when you were using another weapon, like the shotgun. You'd need to specify that the Fight bonus applied only when using the Sledgehammer. The bullwhip, for example, gives you the ability to re-roll a combat dice even when you're not using the bullwhip in combat. The sledgehammer isn't like that.

Hugues said:

Another reason why this would not work is that if you're up against a monster with Physical Immunity, the intended Sledgehammer's combat bonus drops to 0; but for your version, the combat bonus would drop to 0, but you'd still be getting a +1 to Fight that you could use in the battle.

Not to mention, rare monsters like The Dark Pharaoh would affect your version of the Sledgehammer differently. Granted, both these examples are very minor changes, but they are still changes.

Okay, i get your points.

That's a good example that wording something is not easy at all, you really have to think to a lot of things.

Thanks to both of you.

Quick question. I know that monsters that "appear" during encounters are not left on the board after the encounter is resolved. Is the same true for monsters "unleased" on streets by text on Mythos cards? Do these monsters leave play after the end of the turn or are they persistent? Thanks in advance!

They remain in play. The monsters caused by encounters are sort of annoying rules-wise, since in no other instance does "A monster appears(!)" signify that the monster appears only for that encounter. But the monsters from mythos cards stick around, just like monsters that appear from gates during the Mythos phase.