Hello,

Since I have found out that a lot of ppl complains about game being too hard I was wondering what my group does wrong.

Here are games we tried so far:

4 player (core decks) against scenario #1 (we won on turn 3).

3 players (core spirit, lore and leadership) against scenario #1 (we won, however it was a little harder without support of tactics)

3 players (core spirit, lore and leadership) against scenario #2 (we won, final score: 88)

1 player (core lore) against scenario #1 x3 (3 times won)

1 player (core spirit) against scenario #1 (I won)

1 player (core leadership) against scenario #1 (I won)

1 player (spirit/lore 50 card deck: Beravor, Dunhere, Eowyn) against scenario #2 (I won, final score: 8)

The scenario nr 2 is broken. You can grind it and make an infinite combo that constantly lowers your threat. Effectivaly scoring for as much victory points as there is in the deck and having threat equal to 0 (or if it is possible to lower your threat below 0 -> -infinity).

The combo description: Berawor with Unexpected Courage. Gleowyn. Draw your entire library. Use Will of the West. Draw entire library again. Then use Ghlardim's and Gandalfs. Will of the West. Draw, and so on. You can do that in the final step of the quest, while having 1 enemy in the staging area with engagement cost higher than your threat. New cards will not be put into staging area and so you don't have to do anything besides questing for 2.

So, finally I gave a try to mono tactics scenario #1.

And finally I have lost. At first it seemed impossible to beat since I have only 5 willpower in my deck, combining all heroes and Beorn ally. Since I have only 1 Beorn and it cost 6, I have usually 4 willpower. Since scenario 1 starts with 3 threat on table and draws additional card, I'm in big trouble. After several tries, I have won. It seems like tactics is great support deck but weak on its own. It has unnecessary attack and defence power, while lacks of most important willpower. Without Legolas abilities it wouldn't be possible to beat anything with this deck. However it is nice challange. The problem is that if I start building a deck with it, it will again be overpowered.

Soon we will try scenario # 3 (with 4 of 3 ppl). If we don't finally lose this game, I'm worried about the game's future.

I mean, we soon get a lot of new cards and the new scenario has difficulty 4.... means Extremally easy to beat with random trash. The more adventure packs I buy, the more powerfull decks I have, but the encounters will be kept at a level so low, that the players with core set are able to beat them. This means that already an easy game will become pointless to play.

My question and hope is that we don't understand rules, or do something wrong. Could players that have troubles with the game post what are they difficulties and what causes them to lose the games?

Otherwise we will try to rescue the game maybe by introducing an "evil player" that will play using the encounter deck. Instead of random cards he would have several cards as an options to play. We would have to change effects of cards: look at the top card of encounter deck as look at random card from "evil player" hand. But except that, It should be ok. Maybe this will make a game at least little more challenging to play.

I've heard the game is extremely easy with 3-4 players because it doesn't scale properly. It seems most tuned for 2 players. With 2 players, scenario 2 is challenging with the wrong deck combinations and scenario 3 is still REALLY hard. Scenario 1 is intended to be beaten with each of the starter decks, and you've only tried 2 with Spirit which is made for that scenario. Try Scenario 2 with something other than Spirit, and I'll bet you change your tune.

I also already make quite powerful deck and can win almost all the time. I like to play solo and this is hard actually. Scenario 1 or 2 is not big provlem for me anymore. But scenario 3 cannot win solo. This one is for multy player.Maybe with new cards it will be possible solo.

But same time i bulid up this deck and is good. SO you can build up again new deck with another spheres and the game will be different.

With new adv. pack games will expend and sure no less than level 4 difficult. They should to think how to please us right???

I like the game anyway. Thanks FFG.

But i like to join with you on the World cup in the future. We can be a good team.....

I don't know guys. My friend and I have tried scenario two twice now with different decks and haven't been able to beat it with a Tactics/ Lore or Tactics/ Spirit deck. We don't deck build or anything like that; just play it straight up. Because of this, the game stays fresh for us and makes for a different type of game so far. I haven't considered it easy yet.

DeeJay507 said:

Hmmm i think with starter deck from the core it is very difficult. You should to build up the deck by your self. 50 cards and no more than 3 copies of one card.

Mostly i play solo and dont have so much expirience in coop games. But i try couple of times and i like it.

Scenario 1 wih 3-4 players is sheer overkill.

Scenario 2 is also very doable, since it can be passed by solo players quite consistently once they get the hang of it.

Scenario 3 I'm not sure. It is almost impossible for solo players, because you lose a hero to start with and with the need to reveal cards for the objectives you can fall behind very quickly and never recover. I came very close to passing it solo once, besides that I haven't come close. This one will pose the bigest challenge coop because it seems it was made for more than one player. However, I can see that already with two players, it makes a huge difference. You will have 5 heroes available as opposed to 2, at the beginning. You can deal with whatever you pull out with the objectives more effectively. So, two players already have a great deal of advantages over one. As for 3-4 players, I would be surprised if this scenario proves too tough for them.

Thanks for your suggestions.

I'll try to beat scenario 2 with something different than Spirit.

I'll also try to play scenario 2 with 2 players.

However, it disturbs me a little that we have a game where I have to intentionally cripple myself to even the chances.(by either not using certain cards for certain scenario or can't play certain scenarios with certain number of players.) If that is the case, there should be a hint on scenarios (best for X players). Or a list of restricted/banned cards for certain scenario.

What disturbs me more is the upcoming adventure pack. I heard that the difficulty of the new scenario in there is 4, (I expected 10 or more) which is the same as the Scenario #2 in the core set. However, we will get more player cards for each sphere. This can potentally make player costructed decks even more deadly, while scenarios remain at the same level. Will I then have to limit myself to using only cards from core set to have fun and not overkill the scenarios?

On the other hand, if in future adventure pack, scenario that is very hard (like difficulty 20) for players with decks built from all adventure packs, players will complain about it that they have to buy all adventure packs in order to beat it.

I'm wondering how tournaments will look like

Scenario 3 has a difficulty 7 and you can win it solo after 30 games and only with luck and you want a scenario with 10 difficulty?Sometimes i can't understand people.

@servant of the secret fire:

ok, so scenario 3 is hard to solo. What if I play with group of 3 ppl? I'll see that today or tomorrow. If it turns out to be easily doable with 3-4 players, then yes, I want scenario difficulty 10 or more. What is so hard to understand here?

Even if now, scenario 3 is not easy to solo, you will get more cards in adventure packs. After several adventure packs you will beat scenario 3 easily. So what is wrong in wanting something that would be a challenge?

I thought that we will upgrade both, the player cards and encounter cards. And I see that it is not true. There will be more and more powerfull player cards, while we still get difficulty 4 encounter cards and scenario. Means that already an easy game is becoming easier. I hope It will turn out to be wrong assumption and that adventure packs will contain hard scenarios.

The Hunt for Gollum is the first scenario in a cycle of six. One would expect them to start on the easier end and increase as the story progresses. Starting off with a super-hard scenario leaves them with nowhere to go later in the cycle - either the scenarios just get impossibly hard or they can't ramp up the difficulty.

And yes, the game does scale badly with 3 or 4 players. 2 is the optimal number.

Infinite threat reduction with Spirit's recursion is kind of silly and breaks the scoring system, but it's mostly a "win more" exploit - when you get the chance to really abuse it, you're usually going to win anyway and are just drawing things out for a low score.

Difficulty 4 means a slight challenge that can usually be beaten with careful play once you learn the cards, not "extremely easy to beat with random trash." I lost the second scenario several times before I could beat it consistently. But then I haven't played with more than two players.

DeeJay507 said:

The promblem is that the new adventure packs have only one scenario.If you can't complete that scenario solo but only with 3-4 players those who bought the game for the solo mode what they will do?Why i want to buy an adventure pack if i can't complete it solo?

Do a little research in the forums you will find the same debate in an other thread.The promblem is that the game becomes easier with more players and they must do somethink about that.A difficulty 10 scenario for all it will destroy solo play and believe me there are many solo players here.

Well, you can always play two-handed solo with one player controlling six heroes and two decks. That's what I usually do when I play alone.

Kzer-za said:

Sorry but i pay to play a game as it is and i don't enjoy it wen i cheat.If someone finds the game too easy with 2 or more players he can play with 2 starting heroes if he wants more challenge(and this is in the rules).

It's not cheating. You just simulate a two-player game, including two separate hands of cards and 2 encounter cards per turn, with one player

Kzer-za said:

Read page 25 in the rule book (table talk).With your method not only is like the other guy tells you the name of the cards he has in his hand but also the abilitie of each card and that for me is like you cheat.Also if you simulate a two-player game is not solo.

I've also played "two-handed solo" and accusing someone of "cheating" for that is pointless: it's a solo game, let people play it the way they want!

As for the difficulty of the expansion packs, I also believe they'll become harder as the cycle progress. I'm personnally glad that the first one will be easy enough. A major part of the enjoyment I get of this game is the storytelling aspect and immersion in the universe of Middle-Earth. Victory is fun, but not the ultimate end.

One thing that I believe we'll see more of is fan-made scenarios. Because the expansion packs are self-contained, they'll always make use only of encounter cards from that specific expansion plus the core set. This will limit FFG's options. However, I'm sure fans will try to combine the encounter cards from multiple expansions and produce different (and, if there's a demand for it, harder) scenarios. Ninjadorg was able to create 5 scenarios out of the core set encounter cards. Imagine how much more he could do with an extra 6 encounter decks.

SiCK_Boy said:

I am not accusing anyone i am not a judge and because you do the same doesn't mean that is right .Read all previous comments.I said that is not a solution to play solo with 6 heroes cause I FEEL like i cheat.If someone wants to play a game with his rules it is not my promblem and as a free man he can do anythink he want but i want to play and win a game with the official rules and not with mine.

Again a difficulty 10 scenario will kill solo play.People can't even win a difficulty 7 scenario and we talk about a 10?

I agree that a difficulty 10 scenario is unnecessary at this point. However, we have to be careful when judging scenario difficulty as we have so little references. For example, the Escape from Dol Guldur is clearly a very difficult one to succeed in solo (my success rate is probably around 10 to 15 %), but it also stems from the scenario setup. Loosing a hero from the beginning is particularly crippling when you play multi-sphere (since you can easily end up with dead cards in your hand), which we all have to do when playing with the core set and tournament legal decks. Maybe the addition of player cards will facilitate the creation of single spere decks (or, at least, single sphere heroes deck) in the future, making that scenario "easier", even when playing solo.

SiCK_Boy said:

Yes we agree on this.After some Adventure packs we may have cards wich can make scenario 3 easier even wen playing solo.If we had those cards now and scenario 3 was a walk in the park then yes we should ask for a more difficult scenario but we don't have them.Wen the time comes and we have so many strong cards i think guys at FFG are not so stupid to create scenarios with low difficulty.

Why do you play a game that is for 1-2 people (at least my game box and description on this site says so) with 3 or 4 people Oo?

It states in the rules that 3-4 players can play, using 2 core sets.

Technicaly, there's no player limit intrinsinc to the game, except that we don't have enough heroes to support more than 4 players. The fact that there are 4 spheres also leads to think the game is reasonably playable with 4 players. However, as it's been explained elsewhere, the difficulty scaling isn't that great when you jump from 2 to 3-4 players as the number of "resources" players have at their disposal (allies, heroes, etc.) increases more than the number of "resources" the ennemy has.

Well more like a very optional rule for me

If you think it is too easy with 3 or 4 people design your own encounter deck with the meaner stuff from the other decks. Might help a bit.

I myself prefer to play with a Scenario. If my duty is to bring an important message to Lady Galadriel I better hurry up and don't wait until I have my points as low as possible.

Hmm... I forgot that I can take less heroes. It will give me less starting threat and eventually can give me more points at the end. Good idea. I'll surely try that during my next game.

i too have found you can go inifinate by setting up sneak attack and gandalf and then playing will of the west. you get to the pont when your deck is just sneak attack x 2 and will of the west then cycle these cards all the time to get minus infi threat. seems like the game either needs to change the scoring system or ban cards, not great for a game that is only one set.

(btw this is with only 1 core set, so god knows how bad it is with more)