Are there any rules for replacing organs and limbs for Marines with vat-grown (or otherwise) replacements?!

I can't seem to find anything in the book, and I am a bit unsure about the fluffy lore on this subject, but I seemed to recall it being possible somewhere.

Main reason for asking is that one of the Marines in my group has his eyes carved out in combat by a chainsword, and would prefer to get "real eyes" instead of Cyber replacements if possible.

Well, Col. Schaffer got a new arm in the Last Chancers, so in-universe its possible. Well for normal humans anyways. Geneseed and Astartes physiology would throw in some complications. How would the new eyes work... Would you still get the same benefit from the occulobe? If its just random eyeballs grown from his human DNA I'd think not (therefore loosing his heightened senses: sight talent).

Either way it would be very rare and hard to come by. Especially considering how easily available and inexspensive bionics are. Schaffer got a new arm cause he was working for the Inquisition. Even then the main character mentioned how crazy rare and unbelievable it was for him to get one, and the quality of the transplant (couldn't even tell where it was joined). Meanwhile, instead of discharging even your basic grunt out of the Guard when they've had an arm/leg/lung blown out they just slap on a bionic replacement.

I'd say 'yes, no problem'.

The Deathwatch have a lot of resources, and they'd just vat-grow one from Asartes stock, assuming that they didn't instead somehow just inject a few stem cells or whatever and let the eye grow back on it's own somehow.

It's not like having an organic eye is any kind of advantage, and the player has already suffered enough!

I'd say it's possible, but isn't this kinda in defiance of the feel of 40k? You loose a limb or a bodypart, and you get a clunky mechanical version. That's an important part of the 40k setting to me. In Gaunts ghosts, even lowly guardsmen got their limbs or eyes replaced on a regular basis.

I suppose:

in the war theatre you can receive only bionic replacement......

when you go home, if you like, you can have a flesh replacement....

On the other hand, I'm not about to inflict a player with a character that they don't like for visual reasons. Faces are important to us, and if giving a player a bionic means that he's less attached or interested in the character because of it, then I wouldn't force it upon them.

Thanks for the replies so far

I really do not know why they are so attached to their flesh - it has come of something of a surprise for me I admit, as I'd have expected them to almost chop of arms and legs to get replacements. But as Siranui also mentioned, it is actually something of a downgrade from a bionic counterpart, and I don't feel like punishing them for chosing this, as long as it seems plausible in the DW setting.

It was the vat-part growing I was a bit unsure about, but seems like enough people have seen it on one shape or another. So I guess that makes it possible

Btw I sorta agree on it being a bit defiant, not to just take what you are offered. But it is a Brother-Sergeant, and they just recently completed a great task for the Consecrators regarding a Fallen, so I think they have a bit of (secret) respect from their superiors.

You could just rule that bionics are only used when stuff isn't going to repair naturally, and this would (because the player wants it to) is repairable, given the right injections to stimulate regrowth. Maybe they only install bionics if the optic nerve is fried, or whatever. *handwaves to make player happy*

Another issue is the "vat grown" element. The Imperium as a whole seems to take a fairly dim view of cloning technologies, possibly as a result of the Black Legion's attempt to clone Horus.

Plus, think about the logistics here: in order to get a vat grown replacement arm for a marine, you have to either clone the marine and saw the clone up for spare parts, or grow part of a clone. How would that work, given the complexity of marine genetics? It could be a bit of a risk. Would a cloned marine be a clone of the baseline human or a clone of the marine after his DNA has been mixed with Primarch DNA? The latter makers more sense scientifically, I guess...The only example I can think of where marine cloning was tried on a widespread basis was when the devastated Raven Guard tried to clone (well I ASSUME it was cloning, it may have bneen an alternative process) themselves back up to full capacity to continue to fight in the Horus Heresy.

I suppose an alternative is that each chapter keeps a number of dead marines in stasis, ready to serve as organ banks for active marines. THAT is kind of fitting for the grimdark setting. Or if when a marine hero is transplanted into a Dreadnought, they keep all the spares bits to pass on to other marines?

I agree, though, if the player wants a flesh and blood arm back, let them have it. I prefer augmetics, though!

Easy to handwave, though. Plenty of recruits die because the geneseed doesn't adapt to them properly, or vice versa. Or the marine gets injected with some gunk that promotes regrowth of the missing bits.

don't forget that not all the cyber replacement are ugly.....

look at the eye of brother artemis.....

simply do to your marines a new cyb-standard eye, same function as his real eye.....and in the form of human tipe, no metal, cable etc......

Yeah, it's possible to have bionic implant that don't look clunky or ugly.

To me however, those things had character to the... well... character.

It reminds me of the old 'Battle Scar' system in Werewolf the Apocalypse. There was something cool about having your high rank grizzled werewolf sport a few battle scars - you always remembered how you got those. Same thing in DW IMO... the guy who has a bionic arm and bionic eye has some stories to tell.

It's kinda funny how much of a high maintenance princess someone playing a brain washed killing machine can be tho

You hit the nail on the head though, as it's about characterisation. And choices of characterisation and portrayal of character should lie with the player, not the GM. GMs dictating to players what their character looks like and how he acts two great ways to alienate players, in my experience.

It was cool to have scars in WW, but if you didn't want them, you could generally get them healed. 9 times out of 10 it was the player's choice if they wanted a scar.

Hmm, I don't recall that Battle Scars could be healed, that was the main thing about them... however, in Werewolf, the only way to get them was by your own action (i.e. When downed, you could use your Rage to come back from the brink of death... that was the only way to get a battle scar and it was totally player controlled).

I don't know that I'd force player to take the bionic implant... like you said, you don't want something like that to make someone hate their character.

However, I think it's a missed roleplay opportunity. Yes, your marine can get an implant and be like 'ok, whatever does the job, let's go!' ... or he could feel like he's been violated, that his body, perfect by decree of the emperor is now less so... I'm reminded of Lucius in the Horus Heresy who felt his 'perfection' had been marred because Loken had broken his nose (And a broken nose usually heals crooked).

But heh, whatever floats the player's boat I suppose.

I thought that if the battlescar was healed with mother's touch before the end of the scene that the scar was healed? I digress. I only ever really played a couple of times. Too much hippy stuff for my liking!

i use other mini rules for body replacements, till vat grown part is ready u must use bionic replacement (for around 3 months) then metal flesh is removed and meat is put in place, also it take few weeks till u may use "new meat" arm. Reason enough why some brothers never move from metal to meat, they are needed combat ready whole time.

And do u accept metal part is greatly influenced by chapter u are from. Iron Hands dont need comment, but children of sanguinus will never accept clunky metal joined to their perfect form. (Certain BA captain went berserk/emo after half of his face was obliterated by some ork, only because he wasnt pretty enough)

PS: in Werewolf u were able to remove every battle scar even after battle, sadly it costed u nice part of renown.

boruta666 said:

Ah, nice idea! He also deserves a reprimand from the Chaplain for engaging in this Joust anyways. So the healing time for the eyes, without any temporary bionics might do the trick!

PS: I doubt he will ever be a pretty-boy again. He was lucky to only lose 2 Permanent Fellowship on the attack (out of 10), but I think it will still leave his face pretty ragged! (And do I love the criticals?! Oh yes, I love the criticals!! )