Phyros said:
True but here lately in our group he has ended up with cards like Idol or Magic Stream and a few turns later he's way ahead of the other characters. I remember in the above example I had to use my Philosopher to destroy the Idol to to deny the Elf any more chances to buff up.
That is exactly how the Elf got his only win in 8 appearances around here, Idol at Woods.
What if the elf could move to the woods space in the middle realm?
We used to play this way back in 2nd edition ... Elf could pop to middle region as well. Even then, he was one of the lesser desired classes to play. (I suppose there HAS to be a class that is the least played right?)
We decided to change it up a bit when 4th edition came out .
We really like adding +1 to movement rolls if he starts in the woods AND adding +1 to combat rolls if within 1 space of a woods. Makes him a very mobile character in the outer region with a bit more "bite" if he is near his woods. Not enough to make him a super power ... but enough to make him funner and more desirable to play.
I would still play a thief, warrior, monk, prophetess, sage, philosopher, gypsy, dark cultist etc ... before I would play the elf, even with our added changes.
Another strategy for the Elf is to get your hands on the Orb of Knowledge at any cost. The you start bouncing from woods to woods and burn through the Adventure deck gathering goodies and power real fast. Done it several times now. Some characters are weak at first sight until you look at their abilities in combination with what's available in the Adventure deck. The downside is when the deck becomes too big with expansions and the number of players is less than 4, making the odds of target cards less likely. Some characters are way over / under powered, but don't be deceived into think an average character is weak until you look more carefully had how it might interact with all over dimensions of the game.
Elf plus Orb of Knowledge by any means and auto-movement from woods to woods is an awesome combination!
JCHendee said:
Another strategy for the Elf is to get your hands on the Orb of Knowledge at any cost. The you start bouncing from woods to woods and burn through the Adventure deck gathering goodies and power real fast. Done it several times now. Some characters are weak at first sight until you look at their abilities in combination with what's available in the Adventure deck. The downside is when the deck becomes too big with expansions and the number of players is less than 4, making the odds of target cards less likely. Some characters are way over / under powered, but don't be deceived into think an average character is weak until you look more carefully had how it might interact with all over dimensions of the game.
Elf plus Orb of Knowledge by any means and auto-movement from woods to woods is an awesome combination!
And if you have a collosus for destroying place cards, then you can clean that space somehow..
I have just play with him today..
The Elf has a good balance between strength and craft but i don't like his ability's so much.
I have use his woods warps several times, but it's not that great..(you need some luck too)
The Elf is not one of the best characters, but also not one of the bad ones..
Our statistics from the Elf are at this moment 1W 2 Lose
Elf weighs in at 1-8 in 9 games here
. Granted, his last game saw him die at the Crown as Warrior just reached him, but still, only Sorceress (0-9) is worse so far.
Dam said:
Elf weighs in at 1-8 in 9 games here
. Granted, his last game saw him die at the Crown as Warrior just reached him, but still, only Sorceress (0-9) is worse so far.
I have not play with the Sorceress yet, but i have see that she has a lot of pvp abilities..
I don't know if i will like her...
Velhart said:
I don't know if i will like her...
She just seems to have horrible luck around here. In 9 games, she has died 4 times mid-game, that's enough to earn her top "honours" in that category. Minstrel and Wizard share second spot with 3 mid-game deaths in 8 appearance each. Difference between those two is Minstrel is 1-7, Wizard 3-5 (so basically he has won 60% of the games he hasn't died in). Druid? 2-6 after 8 games, though 3 times he has been a mid-game replacement. Then again, the Warrior has been a replacement character 5 times of his total 9 games!!! He's still 3-6 with 2 wins as mid-game replacement (top spot in that category).
Dam said:
She just seems to have horrible luck around here. In 9 games, she has died 4 times mid-game, that's enough to earn her top "honours" in that category. Minstrel and Wizard share second spot with 3 mid-game deaths in 8 appearance each. Difference between those two is Minstrel is 1-7, Wizard 3-5 (so basically he has won 60% of the games he hasn't died in). Druid? 2-6 after 8 games, though 3 times he has been a mid-game replacement. Then again, the Warrior has been a replacement character 5 times of his total 9 games!!! He's still 3-6 with 2 wins as mid-game replacement (top spot in that category).
Another player has play with the warrior only one time, due because his other character(wizard) died in midgame..
So the Warrior has not get his full chance yet to win..
The only time we've seen the elf (in 4th ed revised) he won, and he came in early game after that player died as the dark cultist!
I think the elf is strong and good.
New regoins tend to be bad for the elf because the elf's powers don't work anywhere but the main (outer) region, but other characters can take their powers with them. I'd like to see woods spaces in the forest map for this reason.
Go Elf, it's ya birthday! Elf wins! Elf wins! Of course, he does now have the dubious honor of being the only character so far to lose in battle against a Toad
. Knight saw the Reaper land on him and was forced to use his Fate, as he rolled a 1. Then he drew the Witch and got Toaded. Upon turning back to Knight, he cast Slow Motion and move to the Ruins, where the Witch was, along with all his dropped stuff. He got Toaded again! Philosopher had drawn Arena at Woods and the Elf wanted to cleat the space, so he summoned the Knight-Toad there, lost the battle.
This was a high-Craft game, Philosopher got Familiar and Elf got Solomon's Crown, then they managed to split the Fountain of Wisdom between them, so that in under 10 turns, each was at Craft 8. After Elf got the Warhorse and tromped first Miser Dragon in Woods, then a regular Dragon, he was pretty much Crown-ready. Philosopher zapped him with Rod of Ruin and dropped the Elf down to Str 3, but Elf drew Raft, went to Warlock's Cave, took a Quest and completed it there and then (discard 5 points of Str trophies). Reaper landed on the Elf while he was making his way to the Portal, but he rolled a 6 and gained another Craft. With Str 3 (8 in battle) and Craft 10, the Elf took the Craft path and made it in one go. Philosopher had Craft to get to the Crown, but not enough Strength, the Knight died earlier and was replaced by the Minstrel, who got a Bear Follower on his first turn and then took down a Dragon himself. Minstrel had enough battle Strength to challenge the Elf, but no way to get past Mines or Crypt.
The win bumps the Elf up to 2-8 in 10 games.
I always jump from woods to woods so he can ignore bad cards. If you draw a good spot like the strength and craft streams you can get most of the tokens this way too. People who forget to use the special ability do bad I think.
Dungeon Master said:
I always jump from woods to woods so he can ignore bad cards. If you draw a good spot like the strength and craft streams you can get most of the tokens this way too. People who forget to use the special ability do bad I think.
He can only ignore Creatures (which includes Enemies) and characters. He can't evade Reaper nor Events or Places, unless you use variant rules suggested. If he gets no early stat boost and then the Woods have Dragon, Miser Dragon and Giant in one each (this has happened), he won't even draw cards there, he just doesn't have to fight them.
Elf has become the least loved Character in my group of gamers since Revised 4th edition. There are too many cards that can clog the Wood Spaces now, Places that are not as good (and temporary) as the occasional pool/stream/fountain, and a lot of dangerous creatures. He has no abilities outside Woods, he has low Fate, at least for a Good Character, and no edge except for above average starting stats. I don't know how you should fix it, teleporting to the Woods space in the Middle Region won't be too imbalancing. In Frostmarch we're going to have a Warlock Character that starts at the Warlock's Cave!
By the way... Dam, it's your birthday today? I see a cake with candles on your profile. How're you going to celebrate? I'll be surprised if no gaming session would be played in such a day!
Happy birthday!
The_Warlock said:
Happy birthday!
Normal Talisman day. Well, except maybe not, the Troll probably broke the speed-record for a win, unfortunately didn't check for the start time, but doubtful the game lasted more than 40 minutes.
Swashbuckler had a bad start, first turn to Fields, draw 2, Giant + Goblin combo for Str 8, so lost a life. Soon after, another Fields, Crone + Demon. POW, Toad! Troll had a game that you would be hard-pressed to improve, even if you could arrange the Adventure cards by hand. First turn, Str 2 trophy, soon after, Str 5 trophy, +1 Str. Then he drew Sword (later got Sword of Light and Fate Stealer) and killed the Dragon the Sage had drawn, +2 Str now. Soon after he took on and beat the Giant-Goblin combo, +3 Str. Sage and Swashbuckler both had drawn a Talisman from the Adventure deck and the Troll was chasing them, looking for an easy Talisman. During the chase he got 2 more trophies, Str 3 then Str 4, how fitting, +4 Str now, definately Crown-ready. Top it off with the Sage drawing ton of Objects, being forced to ditch some, Troll picked up the Shovel. Troll hits the Middle Region, then Sage can't avoid drawing the Hermit and the roll has the Hermit appear at Plain of Peril! Troll goes up and takes the Strength path, no problem. Then he succeeds with the first 5 Command Spell rolls, but with Healer on the board, no deaths. Neither Sage nor Swashbuckler could really challenge the Troll though, so eventually they bit the big one. Troll is now at 5-5 after 10 games, sharing top spot with Sage.
This and last week have been regular 5 games of Talisman week (one per day).
I think the elf is kind of weak. If I were the game designer, I'd have given him a ranged attack that allows him to attack monsters in the next space with no threat of harm (but then, I'd also put an item in the game that does that as well).
Speaking of weak characters, am I mistaken, or did the Thief have an 'instant evade' special ability in the Black Industries edition? Did FFG remove this power, or am I delusional? As it stands, I think the Thief is the weakest link, especially if you are only playing a two-player game.
I personally think the minstrel is one of the strongest characters. If he takes a 4 or 5 STR follower, he's set.
Lars Gnomish said:
Sadly, you've gone off the deep end
. Thief never to my knowledge had any evade ability, not 2nd ed, not BI 4th. Maybe you're thinking of the Ninja? And even in 2-player, the Thief has options and possibilities for landing on the other char to steal. Actually, I think in 2-player, Thief raiding the Village for Mules would be easier, less draws, less chances of getting Market/Market Day.
Lars Gnomish said:
That's still kinda big if. Need to find an Animal and get it as Follower before someone kills it, casts Destruction, etc. Minstrel is so far 1-9 in 10 games here with 3 mid-game deaths.
Lars Gnomish said:
I think the elf is kind of weak. If I were the game designer, I'd have given him a ranged attack that allows him to attack monsters in the next space with no threat of harm (but then, I'd also put an item in the game that does that as well).
They should include the bows and give the elf arrows too that you can replenish all the time.
This makes the elf more powerful that he is right now..
Lars Gnomish said:
I personally think the minstrel is one of the strongest characters. If he takes a 4 or 5 STR follower, he's set.
Yeah, he can be really powerful if he succeeds to charm a mammoth.
I think you can use weighten dice for this, this should come in handy
Anyway he has a high fate, so you can try again to roll a 6:)
Velhart said:
I think you can use weighten dice for this, this should come in handy
Anyway he has a high fate, so you can try again to roll a 6:)
I think Weighted Dice mentions movement or combat roll only. Not 100%. Twice, the LoD has taken the full brunt of Weighted Dice when he has been defeated.
Dam said:
Lars Gnomish said:
Speaking of weak characters, am I mistaken, or did the Thief have an 'instant evade' special ability in the Black Industries edition? Did FFG remove this power, or am I delusional? As it stands, I think the Thief is the weakest link, especially if you are only playing a two-player game.
Sadly, you've gone off the deep end . Thief never to my knowledge had any evade ability, not 2nd ed, not BI 4th. Maybe you're thinking of the Ninja? And even in 2-player, the Thief has options and possibilities for landing on the other char to steal. Actually, I think in 2-player, Thief raiding the Village for Mules would be easier, less draws, less chances of getting Market/Market Day.
It would be very nice if the Thief has a evade ability.
But then they must limit it somehow, so you can not use it everywhere, or just roll a die for luck, if he can evade of not.
I actually like this idea, but he does not have it .
I don't think the elf should be able to teleport to the the middle region with his special ability, but I have an alternative idea that might make his ability more interesting.
What if the elf could move between forests (outer realm forests) as a part of his die move? So, instead of landing on a forest in one turn, then teleporting to another forest the next turn, you could continue from one forest to another as if they were adjacent spaces, and continue your move.
If that's too powerful, perhaps an additional condition: elf can't teleport from or to forest spaces that have a card on them.
Lars Gnomish said:
I don't think the elf should be able to teleport to the the middle region with his special ability, but I have an alternative idea that might make his ability more interesting.
What if the elf could move between forests (outer realm forests) as a part of his die move? So, instead of landing on a forest in one turn, then teleporting to another forest the next turn, you could continue from one forest to another as if they were adjacent spaces, and continue your move.
If that's too powerful, perhaps an additional condition: elf can't teleport from or to forest spaces that have a card on them.
You mean wood spaces?
There is only one forest space..
The ability from the wood warp is strong enough, but the elf need something else to be added to his ability to make him interesting.
FFG could easily make a new wood elf that is a replacement for the base game character card.
OMG, the Elf is on a winning streak, he's won the last two games he's been in (and died at the Crown in the game before these two wins)
! Today he won over a pair of high-win % characters, Gypsy (was 3-2) and Troll (5-5). Elf took care of the Gypsy himself, killing her, replaced by the Knight. Reaper took care of the Troll, who had Str 13 and was looking for a Talisman, replaced by the Sage.
Elf did have luck on his side for the most part. He goes first, rolls a 5 to get to the Woods next to Graveyard and draws the Ring. First bounce, Pool of Life, then hops back to the original Woods, loses to a Gargoyle, back to the Pool, back to Gargoyle, back to Pool, then finally kills the Gargoyle. He also drew Wheel of Fate at the Woods close to the City and later Magic Stream at the Graveyard Woods and managed to get +3 Str from that (Troll used Weighted Dice to get 1 Str as well). Elf hit the Middle Region and landed on the Portal of Power and drew the Hag, losing him the Black Unicorn and Warhorse who were his protection against the Troll. But the Reaper then killed the Troll before he could try and attack the Elf, then the Elf just cruised through the Strength path with Strength 10, winning in 55 minutes.
I think alot of the problems are that players dont look at what thier guy can do but what everyone else can. I just started playing Talisman and won my 1st game with the elf , I just focused on me and not everyone else.
Same with the dark cultist being "over-powered" , I have used her 2 or 3 times and get whooped although she has the potential to be really strong but shes a target also.
So the Elf really isnt weak in my eyes he just does things under the radar , try focusing on what you do and with that timely Random spell even the Elf wins
