So far I've gleaned that the new Deathwatch book Mark of the Xenos has statistics on a lot of xenos that are already featured in Dark Heresy's Creatures Anathema and other books: Ork Nobs and Boyz, Genestealers, Daemonettes, Bloodletters etc

I don't have the new book yet so I am wondering if these stats are the same, or maybe a little different, or hugely different, to provide an Ork Boy that can actually be a threat to Space Marines.

I sincerely do hope the stats are the same, otherwise we would have Deathwatch Orks and Dark Heresy Orks and there goes compatability!

The Ork Boyz in Mark of the Xenos are almost identical to those in Creatures Anathema. Their weapons are a fair bit more powerful and some of their stats are one or two points higher or lower (Not the stat bonus, literally one or two points) but otherwise they're just about the same. It seems Ork Boyz are pretty much only there to be used in hordes.

Its actually a pretty worthy book if your players are around ascension level, the orks have a bit more gear and Horde rules which they didnt have before and that makes them quite a bit more dangerous than just their individual bits. Its mostly things like the Nid's that got a really big update, stealers always where bad news, now they're slightly nastier, lictors got turned from a total party kill... to that and a bit more.

Then there's the chaos section... yeah, well. When you absolutely, positively have to kill everything with the kind of panty shitting effectiveness of dropping small, dumb innocent animals into a food processor and cranking it up to extra liquify. Its there to tempt GM's, I know my group where extra happy to hear yesterday "oh, I've got stats for all the greater daemons and by the way, I'm running this weekend" Of more actual use, most of the troop-type daemons are about 25-30% tougher and meaner than the ones in Creatures Anathema.

Really happy with the book overall, lot of bugs with reams of stat-blocks, ideas and easy to modify to suit your game. Definately one of the better books in the last lot of releases.

Hi Laughing God,

I bought the legal PDF, but just "floated" it.

The Genestealers ARE different. Unnatural Strength & Toughness and I think to remember other stat changes as well. They had to be, a Spacemarine would otherwise simply laugh at a CA-GEnestealer, me guesses. But you would be ill advised to buy it just for this stats. They have nothing about Symbiont Cultists or other points of interest.

All in all, I think it might be a worthwile purchase via PDF. Especially if you are from Europe ( as long as USD is weaker the EUR, we get better prices).

While the majority of the enemies are "hard stuff" until you ascended, some might be usefull for lower campaings as well.

I think I will make good use of the Kroot-Stuff (you get humanoid Kroot, Gnarlocs, Greater Gnarlocs AND Kroot hounds) and some of the"other Xenos"

Crotasilisc (this warp-jumping giant-alligators) are featured (in a short article, so)
A nice but not overly needed large Saurian (similiar to an oversized lone raptor)
A parasite-mindcontrol thing (very usable for DH)
Some nice, "rogue" salvage servitors (you know the movie "Virus"? The thiing with the russian ship in the middle of the sea? Not EXACTLY like that, but similiar)

You get a stat for a CSM in the Chaos section as well. Haven´t read that one carefully yet. If you wish, I wil lgive you an update with some opinon on each entry by the weekend (sunday)

Darn that is disappointing .. so basically we got genestealers to use against acolytes and beefed up genestealers to use against space marines. There goes compatibility between DH and DW.

The Laughing God said:

You could just choose one or the other.

The Laughing God said:

Just think of them as different strains. Nothing says the Ymargl-strain Genestealer found in CA must be the same as the Dagon-Strain Genestealer in Mark of the Xenos. If you are a former or current D&D 3.x player think of the MotX Genestealer as an advanced version of the CA Genestealer. Nothing says you can't use the MotX Genestealer against your DH players, but you would need to take into account the power-differential. The MotX Genestealer would be an excellent candidate for a Broodlord to a group of CA Genestealers.

Varied stats for Tyranids don't bother me- the tabletop game has long established that 'nids have a high degree of variation/mutation, usually geared for a specific environment/opponent. But yet another tier of Orks (after Creatures Anethema and Rogue Trader)? That's irritating...

Well, there are currently three different sets of rules for Genestealers in Deathwatch (Final Sanction, The Emperor Protects and Mark of the Xenos) and two of those are indeed particular strains of the Xenos. The problem, you could say, is that the rules in Mark of the Xenos are put forward as being the "Purestrain" Genestealer, rather than those that have adapted to a particular world. The rules are for the standard template - if such a thing could be said to exist,

One thing I really like about this book is that it finally provides rules, and art, for probably my favourite Xenos race: The Loxatl. Not only do these guys look awesome, their stats are suitable for both Dark Heresy and Deathwatch.

Without having seen what was (re)printed in the book, but images about the Loxatl existed before. If you still need any art, maybe you can use the two from this page: http://wh40k.lexicanum.de/wiki/Loxatl

But yes, ultimately I would agree that no one book from the 40k RPG would be entirely useless. Regardless of what game you run, you're bound to find something that you can use, even if it's just an inspiration or a nicely fleshed out location. And as far as stats go ... well, changing a few numbers around to make a xeno conform to the ones from the line you play should be no problem.

First time in a long time you've posted in the same thread as me, Lynata, and already you're back to making me feel like an idiot

At least the image I've been able to take from the official pdf is a lot brighter than that one.

Uh, that was not my intention! I don't even remember any first time.

No worries: I consider it quite normal that no one can be aware of everything that was ever printed - there's just too much stuff from 40k by now, and depending on what races or factions interest us the most, we end up missing out on other things. One of the two images in that article, for example, is from the Inquisition Illustrated Guide. Which, whilst I would recommend it, is very specialized material that likely doesn't end up in the hands of fans who are not interested in the Inquisition. As for the second image, I'm not sure where that one is from, but I would not be surprised if it had a likewise obscure origin.

Which is why I'm glad such forums exist so that we may exchange our thoughts and sources, if such interest exists.

The Laughing God said:

Hi Laughing God,

as Lynata implied: there was.

And there never could have been. Not if they would try to use the same beasties without horde stats. In the case of the Nids, this is fine, so. They ARE mutable genotypes.

What strike me most is the different approach in regards of wounds. A Krootox, for instance has 80 wounds. Our Ogryns (DotDG) have about halve that. And while a Krootox is bigger. I wonder if it is twice the wounds.

The hardest hit is the Tau Suitwarriors. As far as I remember, I saw something about 100 wounds. And I think this was not "hard stats" but one individual! Which is need for something that has to stand against a group of SM. And something I would like to see for i.e. Daemonhosts as well. ..and what would have been a better approach for "Unnatural Toughess" to begin with (double the WOUNDS, not the TB!)

That said, A LOT of wound stats are compatible with DH! For example , Spacemarines, Inquisitors, regular Kroot etc... but in case of their "new big monsters", they go all crazy to ensure that these beasties have a slim change of surviving the first volley of bolter fire from a kill-team (not totting any heavy weapons, that is!)

All in all, I think DW does is about right. And DH would really need a re-launch with a second, all-new version. AFTER the field-testing for Black Crusade is over, of course!

Gregorius21778 said:

No chance, those **** bolters killed **** near everything!

Its slightly easier now that such things have been brought down from "patent ******* stupidity" into something that still does gross amounts of damage. Think as anyone who had the misfortune of having to GM DW would agree, you take what you think is reasonable for an encounter, then just double or triple it to actually pose some kind of threat.

It's not just the Genestealers. Their different stat sets could be attributed to different strains. But daemonettes, bloodletters etc are wildly different from DH to DW.

Obviously they were scaled up to present more of a threat to Space Marines. But it's a pity I think the stats are not universal for all the books and game settings. Ah well.

Lynata said:

Compatibility went by by when the made Rogue Trader. They are cousin systems, similar, close and almost the same.

Its a shame, as I still think RT should have been scaled for rank 4 Dark Heresy and shoud have kept the same XP costs for advances and for XP awards. But hey, thats what red ink is for.

Adeptus-B said:

What's this "another tier" bull?

Read the post again, all they got was different weapon stats, which just goes to back up the statement that DH weapons are underpowered for the sake of PC survivability.

As for system compatibility, well having a 2nd edition come along and unify everything is just seems like a vain pipe dream I'm afraid. Cause to unify things they'd need to build off one book (to avoid having to reprint the core rules like they've been doing now). So then everything needs to build off the one foundation game that they come out with first, with all the rules (Dark Heresy 2e?), meaning you have to buy Dark Heresy to play Deathwatch (wha?), and build everything off the DH system, or contain so many modifications that you might as well just go and do exactly what FFG is doing right now.

It's very much a case like with the OWoD. Things are different enough that it's easier to do everything seperate but within the same basic game system, than to try and harmonize it like they did with the nWoD.