Brain does not cope. Too much info.

- Tourney points are now official.

- Our first glimpse at the new "buildings tiles"

- New walkers, new squads.

- Updated rulebook!

I willingly give FFG 20% of all future paychecks as long as they keep cranking out the win.

I hope the revised rulebook solves some of the recurring questions we have.

The new buildings look quite simple. Just some walls that don't really take any space in the squares and probably block LOS. I wonder how the "connect the dots" system will work with these, as it could get really fiddly.

I wonder what these terrain posters are like. They are pretty huge, so how do they fold? Or are they literally posters, made of soft rolled-up paper? That would probably suck.

Not really digging too much the designs for the new walkers. But very curious to see the cards for all these new units.

Im sure the terrain posters will be folded. Hopefully they are made of the nice heavier paper like the Descent: Sea of Blood map is.

I'm most excited about these new buildings. I think it's safe to assume that vehicles cannot enter them, but I wonder if it is possible to shoot into them from afar.

Im excited about models and points rules. there was little reason the Laser grenadiers should be the same cost as the recon grenadiers, long term will make the game more balanced.

Looking at the sample tiles in the Terrain Tiles Set, there seems to be different colored dots in some of the squares. Guess there will be different rules for different colored dots. Fun! I hope FFG will release more Terrain Tiles Sets for me to build a terrain library! The walkers in the revised core set look like light walkers. Sweet! I'm definitely gonna get me a copy of this revised core set and whatever they announced

traderghost said:

why bother buying the terrain packs ?

before to long , they will anounce that the overwhelming majority of people want to do away with the grid , so it will be table top rules only . granted , it will be based in ASSUMPTIONS and tricky math as the decision to drop the old point system so they could make this 40KJR , but they have the rights to the publishing contract so the wants of the majority of the current customers (who dont play minis games) have nothing to do with it .

welcom to the first step into bringing everything that is wrong with other minis games , right here to this one .

Loophole Master said:

actually , because the current rules are designed around fair balanced units , and player choices , the new rules will likly be a serious rewrite to account for the new focus of the game , which is apparently tank busting , as made clear by the tourney points system . as such , they will need a rewrite to handle the move away from minis gamers , to the 40Kjr they want this to become .

While I love the fact that the new core set has a completely different assortment of minis (thusly not overlapping the old set), I'm a bit worried about the poster maps.

Anything fiddlier than the usual heavy cardstock used for the tiles would make me pull a unhappy face, to say the least.

Can't wait to see more details about the new units - even if the armored troops from both sides have a very low appeal.

GrandInquisitorKris said:

I really don't understand why so many people are clamoring for tabletop rules when the grid system works so well for the game and makes it so fun. Why bog down a game with a ruler when the game is meant to be *fun* and *fast* right from the start? TT rules will totally change the spirit of the game.

I thought they were doing Tabletop as well as grid. Tabletop appeals to players switching over from WH40k or other things. The grid might work well, but not appeaing to as many players.

Just noticed that the units cards pictures are larger than what appears on the page. Some interesting info can be glimpsed:

- Heavy Flak Grenadiers: Their Fliegerfaust does not do a lot of damage, and needs to reload. However it has a Burst Weapon ability I'm very curious about. They are also damage resilient, and Armor 3, which makes them quite tough.

- Sturmpionieren: It's basically a Battle Grenadiers Squad, but with an STG replaced with a flamethrower.

- BlackHawk: Has the All-In-One ability, which doubles all attacks once in the game. Also has Fast (I think all Light Walkers have Fast). The weapon is pretty decent for a LW.

- Death Dealers: A combination of Recon Boys and Gunners, with three M1s, an M9 bazooka and a Victory machine gun.

I quite like these mixed squads with two special weapons in them.

now looking at the points system , i have always said it was skewed , that it ONLY adresses the ability to attack tanks .

now apparently FFG thinks its TO easy to destroy tanks , and has admitted that the new points system rectifies this issue , which means they are admitting that i was rigth , and that its not about "balance" , but about tanks :

posted by duncan idaho on dakka dakka

" You have an axe to grind with 40K. Fine. But don`t expect further answers from me.

Oh and BTW, the old point system made it way to easy to kill walkers since infantry and walkers were not well balanced. This gets rectified.

And this is not from a person that is just a gamer but one that actually works on the game ."

dont you all just hate it when i'm right ? when its not about balance , but about tanks , though i must thank DI , even after about 180 games , i was not aware that tanks were so easy to kill that the points values had to be changed to protect them .

heres the link to the forum post , because even though the FFG people wont participate on their OWN forums , apparently thay will on some other forums .

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/360/325313.page#2915152

GrandInquisitorKris said:

Don´t you think, you´r crying "fire" without even smoke? First of all I will try the new AP-system before I say if you´r right or not, but at the moment all I can read of you is whining. This is not personally but it looks like. When I see you´r right i´ll apologise, alright?

I know Duncan, and so far I know he ain´t really working on the rules... he´s translating the rules into German for FFG. Maybe he´s a little bit more involved cause of rule questions but as I know him he´s a real fan of the game and I don´t think he will only look if they destroy the balance.

Hello

Iam long time mini player and colector , i love dust tactics for it simplicity , and fast play. Grid kills LOS debates and measurement problem, make it easier to play on kitchen table , simple point system removes boring long army list generation. They even manage move deployment phase into actual game.

I would prefer that FFG would go with standar bord game expansion direction -half year = new operation box with minis ,new rules ,scenarios and grids instead of gw/rackham army book way. I think it works already for so many of their games.

Iam not really intrested in table top version. I already have rule systems for all my TT gaming needs. So Kris you have my full support in your concerns about game direction .

I have some question ...

to Tournament points supporters

1) can you show me how old system is broken? I dont have enough experience with game to find that out on my own . Some example of "win all" army list?

to Kris

1) i dont get what "it is not about balance ,its all about walkers!!!!" mean. How "we think that walkers are not enough important in play " translate into " we wont 40k lite"

btw could they use X.Y point system? X usable for simple system -0.Y for Tourment Table top? they dont need to have two separate card sets and i think that 1-10 should be enough to differentiate units in class .

cheers

Poyet said:

I don´t think the old system is broken. In fact I love the simplicity of creating an army. And as far as I know there is no "win all" army list like 40k 2/9 lash or IG-Veteransquads in chimeras with manticores or stuff like this. Every unit has it´s right to exist and it´s value depends from how to play and the terrain.

On the other hand I think the new point system is needed by the lots of expansions.

As Moiterei said, I wouldn't say that the old system was broken. It worked very well for the small scale that Dust Tactics started out in. But this system was strongly typed: all armor 2 infantry cost 2 points, all armor 2 heroes cost 2 points, all walkers of 4 health or 4 armor (not sure which) cost 4 points. It left very little room for units that were slightly weaker or stronger than normal, because they would immediately become too powerful or too weak compared to the cost of other units.

As unfortunate as I feel the removal of the original point system was, it was, in a way, neccessary. As this game expands, the creators can't expect to making everything 100% balanced to everything else in a low point system. Even now, you could probably find a way to min-max the minimum point system just as much as any higher point system. Dust Tactics was made to expand, and that means Dust Tactics needs to evolve.

Sometimes the reason every miniatures system uses a higher point system is NOT because they're copying each other, but because it is the system that works in the long run. Sure, it's more complicated and everyone will have their disagreement over what a unit is worth, but it leaves the most room for the creators to expand and it provides the most long-term balance to the game.

If you feel that a game is unbalanced because of it's higher point system, I would argue that it's not the point system's fault, but the designers who are not properly balancing their creations.

And also, for the record, I am not some 40k loving mini's gamer trying to tell people that this "is the greatest system evaaaarrrrr". Dust Tactics is the first, and only, miniatures game I've ever played. I have glanced at the rules for a total of 1 other miniatures game, and I've never had any interest in 40k. I take the stance I do because the change makes sense to me on a design level. If I were them, I probably would have done the same thing.

GrandInquisitorKris said:

Will you give it a rest already!

What are you? about 14?

We all heard you the first 30 times on every forum you could type to.

If you don't like the game anymore then quit and shut up already!

John Carter said:

Amen!

blkdymnd said:

OMG the number of times are started to type a response to his rants and didn't. But yeah give it a rest already.

I must second that (or would that be fourth it?). I don't understand how people can see every change will results in the beginning of the end for Dust. The game is going from a "small army size" battle game to a "large army size" one. Or at least allowing for an army size, thus the need for some changes.

-Jeff

Did GrandInquisitorKris get banned? Or leave? All his posts now have no image and say user unknown? For a guy who claimed to love the game, he sure was negative about everything. Just wondering....

he threw a fit on the Facebook Dust Group and said he asked FFG to remove his account. they complied and i'm hoping we can have constructive comments here now.

blkdymnd said:

Ah thanks for the update! Just seemed odd. And yes, now back to serious discussion of shiny new units