All I can say is excellent. Looking forward to this big time. Does anyone know, does Quarter 3 jive with GenCon????

OMG! Love those new robots! And giant germans! And tourny points! >head explodes<

Not to mention the Unit Card Upgrade Pack and the new Terrain Tile Set. Looks like FFG is going into a new Dust Tactics line of Terrain Library. Fun!

It has been less than a year since I bought Dust Tactics at GenCon and I can't believe everything that has been released since then. I think it is great too that you are given the opportunity to purchase replacement cards, really helps my OCD.

I know they have to be planning for something to be released at GenCon, I hope it is the new core set!!!

Funny that the new Core Set features a Ludwig in the cover, and yet it doesn't contain a Ludwig within.

Here's my guess as these new units:

ALLIES:

- BlackHawk: Light-Medium walker, Move 1, Armor 3, Health 3, Fast, single weapon with a Berserk-like one-shot ability that increases rate of fire.

- Rhino: The allied equivalent of Markus, rushes towards its target and pounds it with turbo gloves. Armor 3, Health 4.

- Hammers: 3-man squad, similar to Grim Reapers. The allied equivalent of the axis gorillas, again, just rush and punch. Armor 3.

- Death Dealers: Not sure how they differ from the Gunners.

- Hell Boys: BBQ Squad with an extra flamethrower.

AXIS

- Hans: Light-Medium panzer, probably quite similar to the BlackHawk, with Health 3.

- Lara: Wields two double MG44s and probably has some ability like Assault. Armor 3, Health 4.

- Heavy Flak Grenadiers: 3-man squad with bazooka-like weapons and that increased fire-rate ability. Move 1, Armor 3

- Heavy Laser Grenadiers: 3-man squad with heavy lasers. Armor 3.

- Sturmpionieren: Recon Grenadiers with better speed.

Looks like a very different experience from the old basic set.

Anyone know the cost for the new set yet? It has less models, hopefully it won't be at $100 right?

New models are looking nice though

MSRP is 79.95

I am really looking forward to these new releases. They are starting to get a really nice variety of squads and walkers going now.

Hey! Does that mean FFG is not going to produce anymore of the original core set? Then..... does that mean my original core set will now become a collector's item?

cool thing is at least the old core set isnt obsolete. whether it continues to print or not, nothing was really duplicated. they continue to do everything right so far with this game. fantastic looking release.

Excited and dissapointed at the same time, great new models but, don't we already have big enough armies to play any game? I would have prefered to have the Ruskies and Aliens at this time as it would have dragged more people into the game and more choice for us.

dont go getting to excited on the terrain tiles and such , the noew official points system , is the first step down a slippery slope that i have discussed in the past .

its only a short matter of time before they push this into a table top game , and then drop the grids .

the goal seems to be 40K junior , so buying the terrain packs will be a waste , once they decide to do away with the grid , citing all the positive feed back by a small number of player ( compared to the whole ) , like all those people who are NOT playing in their tourneys , but apparently are over whelmingly in favor of the tourney points .

GrandInquisitorKris said:

Sorry, but I think the new point system will bring a lot more of balance into the game. I never knew why to pay the same for Lasergrenadiers and the Recongrenadiers. On the other hand I really don´t know what´s wrong with playing Dust as a tabletop? I believe they will make both: keeping the recent rules for boardgamers and developing altered rules for the tt-gamers. In fact it´s up to you how to play Dust... stay on the boardgame if you want to will be possible I think.

Agree 100% mate. The original point system was way to unballanced for such a tactical game. Liking the look of so much of the new Core set, will definately be getting one, along with the new tiles. Even if they do go to a free table system thr rules will still allow for a tile based game. Thumbs up FFG, great work.

Cheers,

Rom

I certainly have found no imbalance with the simple points system, most games have been very close affairs. You will find that a unit is only worth more than another in certain situations, for example; the BBQ squad is fantastic in a board covered in lots of terrain but is virtually worthless if not and no amount of points fiddling will comopensate for that. And why should the laser Grenadiers cost more than the recon? I much prefere my Recon over the laser, they nearly always perform better than the LG's and do not need a hero or sustained fire to get the most out of them.

Still, I guess, those who want to play simple points can still do so, just got to simply re-cost them.

Moiterei_1984 said:

play 10 games , against different opponents , and you each take 4 units . player 1 always plays 4 squads of recon grenadiers , and player 2 plays 4 squads of gunners . who will win ? most times the recon will , yet the gunners are worth more .

repeat , only now player one gets the recon boys , and player 2 gets laser grenadiers . who wilwin ? most of the games will go to the recon boys . i have watched game after game as recon wipes out other infantry squads .

so in either of those 2 instances the recon is worth MORE than any of the other squads . the ONLT time recon is worth less is when the SOLE purpose is to wipe out a tank . and whala you have the tourney points system . doesnt matter that the recon can wipe out all that special infantry that people brag about being over powered , when you have seen as many games as i have , you know the truth .

the old addage about taking a knife to a gun fight comes to mind . if you are taking on an opponent that plays lots of armor , you will want to take in more antiarmor infantry , if you are playing an opponent that has lots of infantry and little armor , you take in recon grenadiers . you get to choose ....... well you used to any way , and could atlyor your force to what you thought you should bring , and in that regard , all the infantry were equal to all the other similar infantry .

and as far as supporting both the boards system and table top system , well they could have supported both points systems by just printing both values on the card , but they got their second real chance to make a decision , and rather than give the CUSTOMER the choice to play with the system they want , FFG made the choice and this is the ONLY way the game will be produced and presented to the public from this point on .

so when FFG gets to the point of having the table top rules , if they dont already , they will make the choice for the consumer , just like GW does , and in that manner , the customer always loses .

alot of the people i demod to , bought the game , and still spend money on it to play at home . perfect example is a father i showed it to , he has 2 sons , they dont come in to play , but he has spent alot on 2 armies so they can all 3 play at home . he doesnt play the tourney system , and will be in for a shock when he buys the next set , and suddenly its not the same fair balanced game any more .

having to repoint the figs , means no uniformity for people who bought into the game based on how FFG originaly presented it . and if you look at how people point and stat house units , its all over the place , and makes no real sense .

i dont see my self demoing this game anymore , because i wont be playing the tourney points , and thus i wont be demoing the official game , and since i am the one pushing this game ( due to a lack of promoting and enthusiasiam on FFG part ) i dont see it selling as well , as long as FFG has it .

Uhhmm... I can see your point.

But over here in Germany I made the experience that the people I play with want to have a official tt-ruleset and a more sophisticated AP system. Maybe we are all influenced by AT-43 and the evil from Nottingham. And I don´t see a big problem in keeping the boardgame rules alive even if there are tt-rules, first of all I can´t see where the new AP system makes the game difficult? As long as it ain´t working like WHF and 40k (buying abilities and stuff like that) I´m fine.

.

Moiterei_1984 said:

when you start breaking everything down into point values , thats the next step on the horizon , to appease regular minis gamers , and since FFG is in charge , THEY will decide how the game progresses .

its only a matter of time untill they come up with army books , or card sets that allow you to customize units and cheese them out .

40K ripoff , here they come

GrandInquisitorKris said:

Ok, that will be the point when I start playing the old rules again. I don´t need no crappy army books and no abilities I have to buy. If that will be the case you´r totally right, but for the moment I´m looking what´s coming before I drop the next gaming sytem.

On the other hand I would be pleased if there will be campaign books with real background storys and other stuff like that... as good as the Dust-comics are (the sourcebook is total crap) I want more background storys.

Woot.. NEW models!

So.. officaly i have mixed feeling about the models. But that said..there ARE new models.

SO , im not 100% sold on the newest point system thingy.. but i havnt realy palyed with it yet.. but i will sugest it alil more at my LGS to get a better feel for it. That said. I realy was a BIG fan of the simpler system.. it made army building more about what you "wanted" to play vs ..the mathmaticaly tactical balance of a unit. And when you start talking about trying to get a new player who has never played a table top game into this game.. it seem easyer to think of it as large table chess.. then a game of math-hammering (sorry ) an army that happens to move in grids.

For that end..i LOVE the grids.. it keeps it a tactic board game..chess, vs a zerg game of WH40k.

Over all. im still in it to play and trying to bring in more player..so i have more people to play. But im waiting abatedly for new stuff..and new walkers..

just my two cents.

Moiterei_1984 said:

Yes, I totally agree with that. More campaign books with good background stories will put more meat into the universe and make it richer. And these campaign books can make use of all existing Terrain Tile Sets that FFG sells. FFG should learn from Battletech in this respect. Battletech campaign and scenario books are first rate in my opinion. And if FFG sells them as cheap PDF books like Battletech does, sales should be brisk.

Ok, my opinions on this deluge of new news.

• Updated Rulebook: I'll be very interested in seeing what they have to offer.
• Tournament Point System: Mixed feelings. On one hand, I was looking forward to being able to play both systems. On the other hand, I can understand the difficulties in keeping a low point, strongly fixed system balanced forever, especially when new things like aircraft come in. It should be fairly easy to reverse engineer the system though, if people still prefer the old way. As for the ongoing arguement over which is better, I can see both sides. On one hand you have the idea that recon squads should be cheaper because they are a lot less flexible, on the other you have the idea that they shouldn't because they're very good at what they do.
• Additional Dice: YAY!
• Terrain Posters: They're interesting, I'm pretty sure I'll vastly prefer tiles, but the posters do seem like a good, lower cost, low weight alternative for beginning players.
• New Units: I'm very excited about the new units, both the new light walkers as well as the new squads, and especially the arrival of some axis armored troops. I was getting tired of less flexible units that could only use heroes designed for them. And the damage resilience makes them fit with my idea that the german counterparts to the heavy rangers should be slower yet stronger.
• Fate of the Old Core Set: I'm really hoping this is not phased out. I feel the original core set still makes for a more balanced starter army than this one, since it had 4 walkers instead of 2, only armor 2 infantry instead of a mix, and clear-cut unit purposes.
• Terrain Tile Set: Looks cool, and I'll look forward to the new scenarios within.
• Unit Card Upgrade Pack: Useful for consistancy's sake, but not as critical as new stuff.

And Kris, I understand that you've been part of the miniatures community for a long time, and that maybe you're seeing what feels like history repeating itself. But personally I'm not ready to throw in the towel and declare Dust Tactics some lost cause that's going to turn into 40k because they went with a new point system. I don't know if they're going to ever create purchasable upgrades that are loathed so much, they might, but they might also just choose to create more and more squads that they can make a lot more money with than selling than a book. And I highly doubt they're going to go "Board system out the window, we're switching to tabletop" because it's another product they can sell and make money on. Hell, with the new tile set, they've already invested in the idea that people are going to like the boards and not only prefer them, but want MORE.

Manfred, it's always a pleasure to read your analysis.

It seems pretty obvious that they are starting to expand the game and add lots of new units. This is the obvious time to switch over to the tournament point system in order to be able to vary the point costs of individual units based on their effectiveness. Yes, recon units are outstanding infantry units, but what are they going to do against walkers? The gunners may be weaker against infantry, but can fight walkers as well. And the final cost of units is based on their overall effectiveness. Yes, you can argue that this is or that unit is over/under costed, but as more units come out, it will be necessary to differentiate them more in point costs. Did I like the simplicity of the old system? Absolutely! But I think in the long run, varied point values make more sense.

Frankly I love the direction the system is going! There are already more unit types going to be available for each army this year than any AT-43 army ever had!!!! Lots of tactical flexibility and the ability to play whatever style of army suits you! For the Americans, I can already see doing a recon/regular inf platoon, a heavy engineer platoon based on flamethrowers and demo charges or an extra heavy platoon composed entirely of type 3 inf armor!!!! The scary part is that vehicles go up to type 7 armor and the most we've seen are type 4's

can't wait for it to be available. the heavy german laser troops look great as well as the new bots.

So I decided to break down what is observable or can be inferred about the new units:

• Sturmpionieren: Historically these were combat engineer units, often fielding demo charges, flamethrowers, and minesweepers. In Dust Tactics it appears they are armed with a flamethrower and some panzerfausts + StG47, which gives them more range but less dice than their BBQ Squad counterpart. Armor 2 and 5 Soldiers.
• Heavy Laser Grenadiers: Armed with nothing but heavy lasers, I imagine these are beefed up versions of the Laser Werfer. I'm also guessing they'll have the damage resilient trait to counteract the mobility of their allied counterparts. Armor 3 and 3 Soldiers.
• Hans: Armed with a "Panzerfaust Werfer" and a "Granat Werfer", neither of which sounds right to me, Hans will have both a dedicated Anti-tank and an Anti-personnel armament. Armor 3 and 3 Health.
• Lara: Armed with Dual, Twin MG44's, god help any infantry that gets in her way. However she lacks an AT weapon, a trait she shares with the original heroes. Armor 3 and 4 Health.
• Heavy Flak Grenadiers: Armed with the fascinating Fliegerfaust, these troops can tear up Infantry and light walkers, as well as providing an AA option. They're reload makes them terribly immobile, but their damage resilience helps them and I imagine burst will provide some form of additional dice. Armor 3 and 3 Soldiers.

• Rhino: With two heavy rocket punches, he may give Markus a run for hardest punch to the face. He's also the second close range Heavy Ranger Hero, since Ozz 117 is a flamethrower man. Armor 3 and 4 Health.
• Death Dealers: Combining the walker busting power of the Bazooka with the infantry-mowing power of a Victory MG, this squad will be a heavy hitter on the field. Imagine 'zooka Joe leading this motley crew. Armor 2 and 5 Soldiers.
• The Hammers: And here comes Rhino's natural habitat. Armed with two rocket punches, this squad will act like the gorillas, except with the Heavy Rangers speed and jump ability. Armor 3 and 3 Soldiers.
• Hellboys: Naturally, someone said "You know what the BBQ squad needs? Another Flamethrower." Combined with their shotguns, Hellboys loose the satchels but will probably retain the fast ability. Armor 2 and 5 Soldiers.
• Blackhawk: Blackhawk wields some nasty firepower with it's Heavy PIATs. It's all in one ability will also double the number of dice it rolls once per game, making blackhawk a brutal killer once it gets his target lined up. Armor 3 and 3 Health.