@ Zakarwe: doesn't "consort" mean that someone is married? I read Dune a while ago, but iirc Lady Jessica was never married to the Duke - she would probably be considered his concubine in terms of rank or official matters (not married, but a long-term lover and trusted companion.)

"Consort" means that you're married with an important person (in French at least, it's only used for some head of state's, some king's or some prince's wife). In English, it may however be used for "companion"...So both uses seem right.

If I remember well, in the French version of Dune, Lady Jessica is effectively called a concubine, but then again it's been some time since I read some of Herbert's works.

PS: yeah, French basically pwns

I admit I haven't read the original book, only watched the movie (Captain Picard, Jürgen Prochnow AND Sting in one movie! <3). According to the internets, Jessica was apparently indeed something between just a concubine as well as a proper wife ("bound concubine") in that her children would not be considered bastards, as she herself had been, but legitimate heirs to Count Leto.

As for the Adepta Sororitas, it seems to be that many people agree they were heavily influenced by both the historic figure of Jeanne d'Arc (Fleur-de-Lys, San Leor, martial aspect, martyr theme, purity) as well as Dune - though in the latter not only by the Bene Gesserit (political influence of the Orders Famulous) but also the so-called Fish Speakers (martial aspect + numbers = religious army).

Given that I've not read the books I'd leave this for other people to discuss, but I thought it might be worth mentioning here, since we're already talking Dune.

Stormast said:

Consort is the non-hereditary partner who is married to the hereditary one. Prince Philip is HRH Elizabeth II's Consort, for example. They do not inherit the land, titles and political clout and typically have none of their own, but their children are considered heirs.

I believe Jessica was a concubine, which would infer that she was not married to Leto.

The hint of Dune inspiration is always close to 40k, but I think the the SoBs perhaps owe more to the Catholic church than Dune in inspiration.

Siranui said:

The SoB's, as Lynata pointed out, are Fish Speakers, with touches of Bene Gesserit sans psychic powers. The movie and mini series glossed over huge amounts of religion found in the books.

The Bene Gesserit Voice would be best modeled as Compulsion.

Lynata, of all people, I would have thought you to be a Dune junkie. Your fanaticism over the Sororitas seemed founded in a love for the Fish Speakers. I would highly recommend the first 4 Dune books (Dune, Dune Messiah, Children of Dune, and God Emperor of Dune). The last two original books get weird, that's saying a lot for the Dune books, but are very good also. Avoid the Brian Herbert prequels unless you become very devoted to the series.

ItsUncertainWho said:

I personally wouldn't recommend CoD and GEoD to anyone I didn't want to hang themselves (as they were two of the dullest books I've ever read), but I thought that final two books in the series were excellent; if rather distanced from the first four.

I never bothered with the mini series, although it's supposed to be good.

In italian version is "concubine".

If you want think Sisterhood as Bene Gesserit, at least they can be concubines (not married, thet are married with the mommy on throne) but certainly not prostitutes.

Siranui said:

Personally, I really like both of the mini series and the Lynch movie, all have their charms. The mini series are a very theatrical presentation, which is odd but suits the material. There are a lot of things in the mini series that are far more correct to the book than the Lynch movie.

As far as CoD and GEoD, I have read far duller. GEoD is where the Fish Speakers come into play and CoD is needed to understand Leto II.

You are all correct, Concubine is more appropriate. From the Lady Jessica wikipedia page:

"In accordance with Bene Gesserit protocol, Jessica was conceived by unnamed parents as part of the Bene Gesserit breeding program; she was raised to be a legal concubine to the Duke Leto Atreides I."

Though I get the impression that she was the only Concubine Leto had, so she had a lot of power. Not only was she a Bene Gesserit, but she had the Famulous Protege homeworld if we trsanslate the above into DH.

Having had my curiosity piqued about the use of 'consort' I used MS Word to look it up just now, and Encarta Dictionary lists two uses that are applicable to the context which are:

1. Spouse of Monarch.

the husband of wife of a reigning monarch

2. Partner

A partner or companion (formal).

So though in the sense of #2, and the context of 'legal concubine' consort is 'technically' correct, but I agree it was perhaps not the best use of the word as I didn't mean to imply they were married. (Though he was silly not to, because she was a spunk.)

Definition #1 has caused me further consternation though. I can't actually decide if Leto was the Monarch of Caladan. He was certainly a Duke, but Monarch? I'm not worried about proper use of the word 'consort' here, I really am curious about whather Leto could be considered Monarch when he had the Emporer to pay fealty to. What does everyone else think?

Well, if we would want to delve into semantics, a monarch is nothing more but the ruler of a monarchy, which is a term borne out of the Greek words for "one"/"single" and "ruler". Essentially it would apply to any nation with a feudalistic form of government, regardless of whether the regent calls himself King or Duke or Emperor, and whether he pays fealty to a higher sovereign or not.

Heh, I knew I've read something more detailed somewhere - took me some time to find it, though. This is WD stuff (issue 211, to be precise), so not exactly on the top of my usual pile of resources...

"The Battle Sisters of the Orders Militant have many strengths. They are recruited from the fastest, strongest and most adept individuals to be raised by the Schola Progenium. Their training is total, honed across the millennia to ensure that every Battle Sister is more than a match for almost any foe. Their weapons and armour are amongst the best the Adeptus Mechanicus can produce. These factors alone would make the Battle Sisters a mighty weapon in the Emperor's arsenal, but that is not all.

The Battle Sisters are utterly dedicated to the Emperor. Their one purpose is to strive for His honour and glory and to protect the Imperium from all threats. The faith of the Adepta Sororitas is unswerving; they are raised from birth to believe the Emperor is the only hope for humanity. Their pious, rigid way of life allows the Battle Sisters no room for pleasure, there is only prayer and war. There is nothing an enemy could offer them, they are impossible to bribe and totally incorruptible.

The Battle Sisters are one of the few bastions standing between humanity and extinction. The Sororitas must defeat alien dominance, rogue psykers, daemonic influence, heretics, blasphemers and apostates, or everything the Emperor has striven to build and protect will be lost..."

And from another page:

"Part of the puritan lifestyle of the Sisterhood is its isolation, and it is generally only the Canoness and her most experienced Sister Superiors who will have dealings with outsiders - even Sisters of another Order. The Sisters are utterly dedicated to one task or discipline and brook no distraction from their studies."

I take it that the topics in this thread have already been discussed in a sufficient manner, but felt that the above fluff would shed some more light on the situation inside the Sororitas, and be appreciated by some of the readers of this forum.

As for the Dune novels, I shall consider that! But first to finish A Song of Ice and Fire (currently reading Clash of Kings) ... and by then Hammer and Anvil might be out. But I'll keep it in mind. There's nothing like some good old classic sci-fi.

Well...this explains the new Battle Sister of Blood of Martyrs; I mean, she need help even to go to bathroom!

And I'm sure she need someone to take her hand when she sleep outside of her convent without her sisters: the outside is EEEEEEEEEEEEVIIIIIIIL!

Out the convent there are psykers! And mutants! And heretics!

And even her fellow acolytes may be heretics! And one of them is a psyker! And the other one is a mutant! And the techprist is certainly an heretic!

And maybe the boss (inquisitor) is RADICAL!

MAYBE HE IS XANTHITE! Other Sisters tell stories about Xanthites! Nightmare stories!

I bet: the old Sister of Battle is from the Order of Our Radical's Maid. They are trained to clean the Radicals offices, feed the alien, call the heretical cults and polish the demonhost.

(And sorry for bad english)

Adeptus Sororitas prostitutes? You gotta be kidding me.

YOU ARE ALL HERETICS AND MUST BURN!!!

I did find the comment about Space Marines with "Pleasure Barges" to be amusing. I believe this was intended to be a satirical comment on the "Sisters of Brothels" idea. *SHUDDER* (Though a great idea for Chaos Space Marines in the service of Slanesh.)

Someone did mention something about Adeptus Sororitas Sisters coming from particular bloodlines and the thought crossed my mind... Would Sisters of Battle be asked to bear more children for the Schola Progenium, since their bodies belong to the Emperor? I can see them serving as chaste COURTIERS via the Order Famulous, but for them to engage in sexual relations seems anathema. An Adeptus Sororitas who did so would absolutely be breaking her vows IMO, but stranger things have happened. The 40K universe has a lot of flexibility depending on your GM, mine would never allow such a thing.

Grinnenstadt said:

Uhh, tough nut.

On one hand, there's the aspect that an eugenic "breeding program" sounds sufficiently grimdark for 40k, and the Sisters Militant are probably amongst the most healthy and genetically pure humans of the entire Imperium (at least in concentrated numbers). On the other hand, the Schola Progenium has been described as an institution for orphans, and it already has a steady enough flow of children from the families of loyal servants. Additionally, the SoB are not that many, which means that every single Sister is a valuable resource. Taking her "off duty" for several months just to bring even more kids into the Scholae seems like an unnecessary waste.

Personally, I guess I wouldn't go with it - there's nothing in the fluff that would indicate a program of that kind, but many details that could be used to argue against it. I suppose it would also depend on how you would see the Schola system, i.e. if it exists primarily to take care of the orphans of loyal subjects, or as a means to get new soldiers and clerks for the Imperium. The institution fulfills both functions, yet I am not entirely sure which is its true nature. It should be noted that the vast majority of Progena do not end up in the armed forces, after all, but in some office position in the Adeptus Terra. Only the best get picked to become warriors, be it in the Commissariat, the Storm Trooper Regiment, the Imperial Navy or the Orders Militant.

That's not to mean that I wouldn't see any room for such an idea at all. One option would be for both male and female progena to submit genetic samples (ovae and sperms, respectively) - that might even be done secretly as part of the purity screenings in the Schola - which could later (if the progena have proven themselves) be combined to form a fertilized egg. Said egg can then be bred in an artificial vitae womb, or in the belly of some random female that is of lesser value to the Imperium as a whole.

Depending on how grimdark you like the setting and if some base commoner farmgirl sounds too normal for 40k, it could also be suitable female convicts, which might even get terminated after giving birth - or who are simply kept to breed another child, and another, and another... The movie "Fortress" might be a source of inspiration here.
Alternatively, the Orders Famulous might arrange for one of their female noble charges to carry the child, perhaps even without knowledge of the family and the future mother, thus secretly "purifying" a potentially defect genetic strain of a noble house by enriching it with the blood of the Sisterhood. And since they are in control of genetic testing, nobody will ever know. Nasty secrets. Both ideas do have some potential, I guess.

Of course, you could also resort to simple cloning, as the Imperial Guard did with the Afriel-strain soldiers. Might explain why some of those official artworks show Sisters who all look the same, even beyond the haircuts.

Well, just some ideas! One could also detach such a breeding program from the Schola entirely (though the children would still end up there) and instead have it controlled by a faction of the Inquisition, or an alliance between the Ecclesiarchy and the Munitorum. What would you think of a "sister organisation" to the Schola Progenum? To pull something from the dark days of Nazi Germany: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebensborn

As for the particular bloodlines, I have to admit I have not heard anything about that - at least not in the core fluff. As far as GW is concerned, all Sisters seem to originate from the Schola Progenium, even if I have to admit that FFG's interpretation to allow for more diverse origins has a certain appeal as well.

The Blighted Scola homeworld has all sorts of possibilities for 'Twisted Sisters' or despicable eugenics programs. Deliberately interbreeding captive psykers and sending the children to the schola is one possibility that springs to mind.

A suitably despicable Inquisitor or Cardinal may use a Blighted Scola (for whatever reason - I'm not that despicable) as a way to get 'timebombs' or 'sleepers' into the Adeptus Sororitas. This could be for many reasons, and could be as simple as discrediting or destabilising the Sororitas.

=I=

This is actually a background I'm planning on using for a Sister Famulus (becuase my current character has burnt his fate points). From a blighted schola trained to be inducted into Sisters Famulous. While acting in the role of advisor/agent it turns out she can see the corruption in the souls of the nobles she cousels.

Her ability to correctly identify heretics draws suspicion, and she is hauled away by the Battle Sister goon squad and 'interrogated' (denounced and condemned package). While rotting in a dungeon waiting for execution, and thinking the Emporer has forsaken her, an Inquisitor 'rescues' her on the conditon she serve the Inquisition directly. She sees this as the Emporer answering her prayers. This reinforces her piety but as a result of having to cope in a new world and finding that her considerable talents are valued and coveted by others she realises the faults within the Ecclesiarchy and becomes significantly more open minded.

=I=

How did the Inquisitor know she was in her predicament and that she would be of use to the Inquisition? Perhaps one of the Inquisitor's acolytes has had an emporer sent vision of her in the dungeon (or that's what the Inquisitor tells her anyway), or is this all a part of a longer game of the Inquisitor's going right back to her parents? (Okay, I'm a little despicible but that's one for the GM to decide.)

Mhm. From my perspective, I don't think such an origin would work. Whilst an individual Blighted Schola might still be tied to local authorities and thus still receive orphans, it would be looped out of the Ecclesiarchy, which may cause a lot of trouble once a transfer is arranged. A transfer to a Sororitas convent would not even be possible, simply because there was no Sister Superior present to supervise the training of the progena and select worthy candidates for the noviciate. And lastly, once transferred, the progena's master would have no control over "his" child, due to the isolation of the convents and the way the Orders work. Detection is likely due to lifestyle, which would mean this project which took years to train would be wasted with no return of investment.

Tl;dr: The Inquisitor in control of the Blighted Schola has no reason to make such a gamble without prospect of success, and the Sororitas would never accept a "novice" trying to enter without approval. I don't believe the combination would work from a canon PoV, and I do not believe the designers of the P&P intended it as an option.

The old IH rules for Sororitas characters would not have permitted such a combination due to game mechanics, as a Sister could not start with Corruption Points but you'd gain some from the Blighted Schola background. The new BoM seems to lack this limitation, which I cannot really approve, but it seems to be in line with a more relaxed take on Pure Faith as well, which now doesn't care if you have 0 CP or have already turned into a daemon. Under the old rules, Faith simply stopped working beyond 20 CP. Meh.

My advice would be to consider reworking the concept into some twisted form of "faithful psyker" - a witch who is a fervent believer in the Creed and tries to juggle her own cursed existence with hope for redemption in His eyes, whilst simultaneously attempting desperately to appease other Ecclesiarchal servants, or at least has to suffer their prejudice.

Just my two Thrones, though - your character, your game!

Hmm thanks for the input Lynata. The Bighted Schola is actually the least vital part of the chracter concept so it could be Schola Progenum I guess. I really want to play a 'disowned' Bene Gesserit type and important to the concept is that the ecclesiarchy has turned it's back on her forcing her to carve out a new niche with the Inquisition.

I have also considered the psyker variant you suggested and I guess it will depend on what the group really needs when Jungo Max meets the Emporer.

Ang I am very glad that this thread seems to have agreed that Sororitas hookers is a no go aye because I REALLY didn't like that idea.

Well, if using the IH rules, sisters can't start with corruption - which imo makes pretty good sense, considering they'd be seriously screened before being accepted. This would mean any blighted progena are out - excepting DM fiat, of course. BTW, just in case it isn't clear to some, sisters CAN have origins other than the scholae: the IH book lists feral worlds, imperial worlds,and noble birth as acceptable as well. As the AdSor has various missions and shrines on distant worlds, it may simply be that they raise some initiates of their own, who might only be sent to the main shrine for the ceremony accepting them as full sisters.

Lynata's information on the battle sisters suggests particularly strict selection and supervision - it might be somewhat laxer in the non-militant orders (only the orders militant are referenced) and I wouldn't be surprised if the RPGs loosened the description somewhat to allow for more "normal" characters for a roleplaying game. Let's keep in mind that an inquisitor doesn't just select any girl who can do her push-ups and say her ave imperators for what is essentially covert service. Yes, I have read that a Sister would be unforgiving of her peers or even master - but that's in case of heresy and treason. If she goes bats..t insane if they miss a prayer, though, or shoots a hive ganger just because s/he doesn't say the prayer the right way, she cannot fulfill her duty as an acolyte of the inquisition.

I was thinking about a dire event that allows to open again the Blightetd Scola, but this time without hide this.
A really dire event.

Tainted Blood of Malfi has Famulous experiment gone wrong written all over it.

@ Sebashaw: I really doubt it. IIRC they were pretty close to being heretical, thus in a really dire event they probably wouldn't be considered trustworthy enough. The Imperium tolerates a lot of things, but trustworthiness and loyalty are extremely important for its servants (more than competence, often enough). Reopening them in secret is easy, all it takes is a cabal of sufficiently radical inquisitors/lords, but as an "official" institution? I'd consider it extremely unlikely, under any circumstances.

And if they were open, I think the AdSor certianly wouldn't accept any of their progena. Sure, they might be talented, skilled, ambitious, and succeed anywhere else - but if they are considered corrupted, none of that would matter. Remember what they do to those of their own that develop something like a psychic power, no matter how pure at heart and devout they are - they are, in the best case, cast out. Ironically, a blighted progena has a better chance of becoming a sister now that her superiors probably haven't heard of the place she got her instruction in.

My idea is:
the earth's beacon doesn't emit the signal anymore.
Nobody know what is happening.
Puritan Inquisitors begin indisciminate persecutions on the planets where they are.

On many worlds, people and government go crazy.
This provoke much panic on psykers, many are demonhost.
Inquisitors of Ordo Malleus and from Radical factions of Ordo Xenos start to think about how to unite Calixis sector.

So, they think, in order to restore the space travels and communications, to use extreme methods.

[in my humble opinion, Inquisitors of Ordo Malleus are all seen as radicals from those of Ordo Hereticus]

Sebashaw said:

Aaaand the Empire falls apart and the age of man ends.

Seriously, if the beacon from Earth stops, Warp travel becomes impossible, trade between systems ceases, planets are left to govern themselves, and the system simply breaks. Not something I'd do unless I was looking at ending my campaign on an epic, and final, note.

Jack of Tears said:

And that's why I'm looking for extreme methods to restore warp travel...
Maybe some xeno-relics could help.
Maybe some eretical theory on warp.
Something that now is proscribed but at the end of age of men...

Humans reached the stars BEFORE the construction of Beacon...why don't try again?

What I have in mind is not a epic campaign, but a heavily heretical campaign.

And the new Blighted Scola is not intended as a public organization, simply a tolerated device in hands of Inquisitors.

The_Shaman said:

As for the RPG "loosening up" on things, I'd definitively agree there, and this seems to be a general theme throughout all releases. Not all SoB coming from the Schola anymore, bolters for everyone, Pure Faith now working with Corruption, Deathwatch not being part of the Ordo Xenos, ... sadly, many players simply appreciate a greater level of freedom regardless of canon. It's a taste thing, but one that seems to pay off marketwise, and not just in the P&P department (see current video games compared to oldschool titles).