So what happens if a Navigator gets their third eye put out? Do they lose access to their powers? Does it grow back? Are they completely unaffected?

(yes I know that few people would want to destroy such a valuable gift. This is just a hypothetical situation; humor me)

I have no idea.

I assume that one might be tempted to axs some forbidden Xeno tech or Bio-engineering to try and "grow" a replacement ...? Could be there's no replacement. Might have to be a cse by case.

well, one of my players want to 'acquire' as many navigator's third eye as possible, especially from his rival house, and 'annex' or 'embed' or 'graft' them to his body ; since it is said that third eye is the source of navigator's power, so...

Telosse said:

Perfect opportunity to go crazy on that guy. Anything can happen.

So....... No one really knows and its the GM's call then?

Telosse said:

My Navigator is officially on a quest to gather up some eyes in a jar. Corruption here I come! lol!

Let us know what is decided!

I'd say they grow back - however there probably is a reason why so many Navigators have metal lids implanted over their eye that only they can retract...

But yea, I'd say "they grow back", otherwise you're shafting your Navigator player out of what makes them a Navigator.

Actually I was comptemplating using it as a background for a completely different character. Possibly with an obsession for getting his eye back from the [mad techpriest/radical inquisitory/weird xenos/rival navigator] who took his. Or just procuring a new one as the others have described.

Ohh....

Actually, I've just remembered something. I vaguely remember from the "Inquisition Wars" trilogy, that if a Navigator loses his eye, he dies.

So any Navigator that has his eye removed, or it's destroyed, dies.

Really? Thats interesting. I didn't figure their physiology was so dependent on it. I mean, as an organ it functions for sensory purposes. My personal theory, mostly based on the fact that tesseracts can imprison daemons according to the new grey knights codex, is that the warp is a three dimensional realm (supported by the fact the Draigo resides in it) separated from our universe in a fourth spatial dimension ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four-dimensional_space ). Or perhaps its a set of three dimensional spaces that warp-native beings can negotiate freely by shifting their position "up" or "down" in the fourth dimension.

Based on this, Navigators are able to perceive and move through the fourth dimension of the warp to some small degree. If each 4D "layer" was a separate thread of space time, that would account for The Course Untravelled and the Tides of Time and Space power.

Of course, thats just me trying to apply logic to the warp. In the Imperium i'd probably be branded a heretic and thrown out an airlock (or turned into a servitor or burned.... etc)

MILLANDSON said:

Removal of the eye equals shot to the head. Cue loss of a fate point.

Id argue, that Navigators are apparently dual beings to a small extent. The loss of their permament connection to the empyrean severs more than just their perception of the warp.

Maybe.

Hm. I remember that Alexandro D'Arquebus (the imperial fist accompanying the inquisitor Jaq Draco in the Inquisition War Trilogy) scrimshawed a symbol into the eye of said navigator ("Vitali Googol"). While this was probably somewhat uncomfortable, the navigator endured the procedure. This enabled him to safely lead them through the eldar webway to their destination.

But to return to context, the eye was later removed - After he was shot by slaaneshi cultists and succumbed to his wounds.

So, actually, it´s not an absolute truth that losing the eye would kill a navigator.

Worst Case it could result in a character similar to a guardsmen that lost both arms with severe nerve tissue damage or a psyker that burnt out certain power centres in his brain. You end up with an unplayable character with no abilities. Well, in the case of the navigator he would have a house to rely on to pay for his lifestyle.

Ikkaan said:

Since he succumbed to his wounds...

Removing the third eye of a navigator doesnt kill him, if said navigator is already dead.

Uhh maybe you put too much into that sentence...(too much succumbing i think). But as written it doesnt make too much sense.

English isn´t my first language, so...I admit my grasp on your language isn´t perfect. As you correctly understood, the navigator was dead before the eye was removed.

So, i guess, the removal could kill a navigator, but not necessarily. It´s not like he is breathing through it, it is an (admittedly) important sensory organ, but not a vital one.

Ahhh sry, didnt want to point you out for English (nothing wrong with it as far as i can see), but rather:

Removal of any organ from a dead person, shouldnt really prove anything. Replace third eye with brain in your example. It will be axactly the same.

The warp eye or 3rd eye has never been described anywhere in detail in the biological sense. It may or may not be anything similar to the optical sensory organ. The Navis certainly are not forthcoming about what it is and no one really seems to want to know what it is as long as the navigator can get them through the warp. The GM can determine what it is biologically and if the navigator can survive its removal/destruction as long as its consistant throughout the game I guess.

Aye, the eye seems to be part warp-stuff, from descriptions given of it - it's how they have their link to the warp.

As such, if it didn't kill him outright, it'd probably do something pretty bad to him - he'd essentially be dead as a navigator, at least. He'd end up being a cripple.

Ikkaan said:

Not necessarily. A guardsman can get bionic replacements for example (it might be tougher on the psyker to get a new functioning psychic brain though ), unless the GM specifically tells the player "You're screwed." I can see only opportunities for interesting situations. Let's say a Navigator gets his/her eye poked out some way or the other, it's still a fully functional character with skills, talents and weapons that are in no way dependant on the eye. The Navigator would lose his/her ability to guide ships through the warp and use his/her powers which might cause some Navigators commit suicide but if the player has got the will to do something interesting about it, the GM should be there to make it possible, maybe not easy, but possible.

There's been examples in this thread, maybe the Navigator insists on pursuing a heretek or renegade bioengineer in the attempt of hiring them or pressing them into secret service where they spend all their time perfecting a new functioning eye or some sort of arcane biomechanical device that let's the Navigator have at least some of his/her powers back. Maybe he/she completely turns to chaos in hope that the Ruinous Powers will help. There's really a lot of opportunities for very interesting sessions!

Essentially I feel it's the player's choice, if it (the player is "it" now) wants to kill it's character off, let it. But if it wants to do something dangerous, maybe it's bordering heresy, maybe it's extremely demanding in time, resources and stamina, let it. That is unless it's plans screws up everything for the rest of the group. (Although it's a bonus if the quest screws things up for the characters now and then.) You as the GM can decide wether or not his Family disowns him/her or not, making stuff a lot easier or a lot harder.

Hiyas!

I'd say, in my game, that removal of the Navigator's eye is tantamount to the removal of any other being's eye. They lose it. They could probably regrow it if they use Chaos sorcery, a dark pact, tech from the Dark Age of Tech, or heretek, but a very powerful & dangerous procedure, with 99.9% of failure. Because if this could have been done already I believe that it would've cropped up in the fluff (& the rules).

That's why the Navigator usually stays put!

L