Hey Guys, fairly new GM here!

I'm currently running the emperor protects, and i'm finding it difficult to sufficiently challenge my marines (without killing them). Our apothecary seems to be able to heal everyone up to full wounds using a half action - basically unless I target all my attacks against a single battle brother, I can never deal any damage.

How can I get around this? Its very frustrating.

liam0404 said:

Why is it only a Half Action? I haven't seen a high Rank Apothecary yet so I may be missing something, but using the Medicae skill (First Aid) costs both you and the person you heal a full round action (bottom of pg 102).

Quite simply, you want an Apothecary who can heal a lot each time. Considering how combat-heavy your typical DW mission is, it's key that the team be healed back up. Big hits (15-20 wounds or more) will still leave even a Space Marine a little bloody after healing, and those big hits can add up. Also, I believe it's been said that the +1d5 healing bonus from "Enhance Healing" isn't doubled by the narthecium, but I've found that whether you double it or not best depends on how often, and how badly, your team is getting hurt.

Split the NPCs attacks and try to harm at least two space marines each round. The Apothecary will only be able to heal one of them. If each SM takes more than than half his healing amount, the damage will stack up over time. With 3 marines hit, they each only need to take more than a third of his healing amount.

Use AOE attacks to force them to split up when they dodge it, meaning they are more than the Apothecaries half move distance apart. So if he wants to heal someone other than the marine he is standing with, first he has to spend a full action moving to him.

Remember that Medicae is a full action for both the healer and the healed. (I don't think anything can change this)

Make sure to keep track of treated wounds. Which means that if a character is healed, does not reach full wounds. Than the difference must be healed with Long-Term care, not First aid.

It helps to write treated wounds in the critical damage area, as most of that stays unused. (Unless you're PC's are getting REALLY beat up, which doesn't seem to be the problem.

The medicae skill is one of the most complex, and the rules are weird and sometimes hard to follow.

Remember to factor in the damage done to their armour. It must not necessarily be critical damage, like complete loss of power, etc, but any hit that penetrates the armour and deals a certain amount of damage means the armour suit is no longer sealed against hostile environment. No big deal on some paradise world, but can be a real problem on a corrupted forge world or in space. It's nothing a party can't handle, but knowing a single penetrating hit on their armour could be a death sentence will definitely make them more cautious.

Also, be creative with the opposition. A space marine squad can take on almost any foe in fair combet - take that as granted. Daemon prince, Hive tyrant, a column of battle tanks - they will take them all out with little effort. After all, that was the point of creating space marines in the first place. So, if you want to beat the space marines (or to provide the players with a challenge) be devious. Minefields, booby traps, sniper nests, fixed emplacements with overlapping fields of fire and hazardous environment will heat things up a bit for the squad.

Are you using the post errata stats? That may keep the fight going longer, esp where devestators are concerned. The way my group using healing is to limit how much we can use it. 1 time during a battle and 1 time in between battles, no one asks me to heal during a battle unless thier seriously wounded bc they dont want to lose thier turn of killing. Also the errata has a rule for how much you can use the medicae skill, our group would die if we use those rules so we dont.

Ban in-combat healing? That works. Or reduce the number of times an Apo can heal a character to once per combat (or after it)? Or at least stop them dodging and parrying while delivering medical care?

I don't see the Apo's role as to stand there like a cleric, healing people once or more during every fight, but instead as more of a medic. And I imagine that it would also be more fun for the Apo if they got to actually do interesting stuff in combat, rather than just standing around healing people constantly.

Also: Engage and threaten the medic and the 'patient', so that they don't have time to stand there and heal each other.

The biggest problem I have with the medicae skill is that first aid is only a full action and that there doesn't seem to be a penalty to performing first aid on yourself.

A round in deathwathc is supposed to be 3-5 sconds, and the idea that first aid can be done in such a tiny amount of time is ridiculous imo. Even on the enhanced physiology of the astartes.

And it just doesn't sit right with me that an Apothecary can fix his own wounds as easy as others.

It doesn't sit well with me, either. I frown upon in-combat use of the skill, and prefer it used after combat.

I most certainly would never penalise the Apo for treating himself though. Give the guy a break: He's already taken an un-greased one for the team by playing the medic. It's hardly fair then to shaft him some more!

Also remember that the Arthesium does most of the work. Plugs in to the marine and does the diagnosis and injects the appropriate drugs.

I'd have to agree with the majority here. Don't focus on downing a single marine each round. Spread those wounds around like ribs at a BBQ! Make that Apothecary run around the battlefield to get to his patients. Depending on the enemy, Tau, Eldar, Chaos, etc. Have them start to target the Space Marine that healing all the other Space Marines. This now does a few things and offers new challenges for the entire kill-team:

1) It forces the Apothecary to now use the battlefield more effectively. Does he take a chance to heal his comrade while under fire? Does he take a turn carrying his comrade to cover before administering aid?

2) The kill-team now has to react to the threat of their medic. If the threat isn't dealt with in a timely manner it could ruin the medic and the rest of the kill-team from that point.

3) Does the enemy use the simple tactic of injuring the kill-team to force the medic out of concealement or cover?

You can present all kinds of challenges to the kill-team.

Are they fighting a skilled force? Aim for the gear. A med-kit doesn't work so well if it's blown up. A bolter has issues if the junction between ammo clip and gun is broken. Shoot out some knees or feet. Or use bigger guns.

Death Traps also work well. Or even mental threats. A space marine may have a problem getting his wounds healed if he thinks the medic is a chaos space marine due to drugs or psychic powers.

Or even needed enemies that the marines should not kill.

Had a game in a system called Legacy (Highlander wannabe) where the Immortals fought an ancient Egyptian wizard and his allies who wanted revenge on the world. They defeated him and killed him, only to discover that a bit of his life force was keeping a portal to another dimension sealed away as in ancient times he was a hero (but the public didn't see it that way and banished him).

yes first the little thingie with medicae, btw: full action both, the natheticum doubles the Int Bonus not the d5. somtimes... attack often spread attacks, let npc's score rightous fury! (very brutal, but to be honest: whan my players finish the Genstealer patriarch with a singel bolt shell first round....) just don't kill them outright. Arms, legs, eyes blown of. fits nicely. makes more fun for you.
Oh and as for medics... and old saying in the german Bundeswehr: that cross badge on your arm. Take it of, thy kill you on sight!
Intelligent enemys pick targets, like that funny dude with the white helmet running to the others and then "poof" they keep on fighting.

funny btw. My Players never heal in combat, to risky in melee and in a shoot out often not needed or not more needed....
Tau burst Cannons and Stealth Suits are not nice for Players... =D