Hi guys,

Question... My GM doesn't particularly want to do Rogue Trader (apparently it's too similar to Dark Heresy), but as a compromise he is going to let me use a Navigator in Dark Heresy... As long as I balance it.

Now, how would you go about it? Restructuring the career path from Rogue Trader, or making it by scratch? I'm a little busy doing work now so I can't elaborate more, but I think you know what I mean.

Any advice would be helpful.

Regards,

SubtleCadaver.

SubtleCadaver said:

This is making my head hurt with how wrong it is. The Navigator career is not in any way intended for the intrigues and investigations of a Dark Heresy campaign, unless it were set aboard a voidship or somesuch I guess. Hell, the Navigator's going to explode almost any fight with just a look...

Navigators are arguably overpowered for DH...but one quick & dirty way to do it I guess would be to use the Imperial Psyker career, give the character the basic navigator abilities (lidless eye, navigation etc) from RT and restrict him from gaining further navigator or psychic powers until he hits 5000xp. Swap out a few of the skills from the Imperial psyker career for navigator appropriate skills and take it from there.

It's a stretch, but not totally ridiculous. Vitali Gogle from the Inquisitor novels was a navigator, and he regularly accompanied Jaq Draco on investigations.

EDIT: You may want to "tone down" the navigator powers' damage effects somewhat. Even so, doing it this way would result in a character who's more powerful than the other players initially, but who would hopefully settle down to their level after a few sessions.

Thanks, both of you. I'll speak to my GM about it later and see what he thinks

Just create the character exactly as stated in the Rogue Trader core rulebook, but run with double xp gains compared to the DH characters.

This is most likely the simplest working compromise you can make if you want to mix RT careers with DH careers.

RT characters start with 4500+500 RT xp while DH characters starts with 0+400 DH xp, so if the campaign is starting out from scratch its going to be quite a lot more complicated. Remember that 5000 RT xp equals 2500 DH xp according to above "rule".

i don't really see a reason to tone down the navigator. Sure they have the option start with lidless stare at rank 2 and dish out 2d10 damage that ignores armor and toughness and causes insanity to survivors that are in his line of sight. Yes, they can in in practice almost kill a deathwatch marine with that kind of ability, no reason to nerf them for a low level game. About the same if you took an astropath and gave him terrify, most common thugs would fail that fear test.

Void_onion213 said:

Actually they can have Lidless stare at master level at Rank2 (unless i really misread some rules).

Save versus death at Toughness at -10. Only problem is that Unnatural stats function differently in RT (for the DW marine).

OTOH for a DH game, they are seriously lacking in knowldedge skills, and while they are able to throw a HUGE amount of weitght around (having a navigator house behind them potentially); but with a very high chance of equally huge mutations.

Might want to look at the Navis Nobilite from ItS as opposed to the regular navigator from RT core. Its more of a diplomacy type character than a warp pilot. Could be used as a high born speaker archtype.

SubtleCadaver said:

1.) This is beyond crazy, as others have stated. I cannot fathom why a Navigator would be an inquisitor.

2.) Have your GM read "Into the Maw, or how I became Incredibly wealthy" actual play: javascript:void(0);/*1307296014891*/

Rogue Trader narratively completely different from Dark Heresy.

Outright statement: I view the 'Navigators in DH!? WTF!?' sentiment as utter tripe.

Simple solution: Use Dark Heresy 'homeworlds'. This includes '20s' +2d10 profile, rather than 25 (or 30 for DW). Pick a DH career (cannot gain Psy ratings, but otherwise the Psyker career works well, as do Adept and Scum). Until you hit 5k xp, any use of your Navigator power needs a +0 Toughness and +0 WP test to avoid taking Fatigue. If either is or both are failed: gain 1 fatigue. Count as buying the 'Navigator' background package which I now detail: 400xp. Get 'Navigator' Talent, Common Lore (Navis Nobilite) as Trained and Navigation (Warp) as basic. You'd also have to choose your lineage, mostly as normal. (Destitute might entail the character's class being altered for Wage purposes in DH).

Renegade would work fine on the caveat that it's a massively radical thing to be, in DH terms. Also you don't have an initial mutation, that starts...well, whenever.

Is there an issue with the character being a Navigator? A young scion is picked up (thus earning the ire of their house for whoever the commandeering Inquisitor is, but in the meantime, the young scion doesn't have much of a choice).

To gain extra Navigator powers, you'd either have to bargain Elite Advances with the GM, or wait until Rank 6 at which point the DH character can enter the RT rank schemes.

Simple, no? And, what's better, it's pretty **** fun too, I'd say.

If overall game balance is an issue, just roll up your Navigator using the Dark Heresy character creation rules, then apply the benefits of being a Navigator as if it were any other Acolyte career.

Hantheman said:

That's probably the best option if you want to have any use to an acolyte party as the skillset of a navis mostly lends itself to just navigating and doesn't really have a lot of combat options or so forth aside from looking at people a couple of times before they fall over from fatigue. The see corruption and other non-blowing the **** out of things with a warp eye are actually a fair bit of an asset to an acolyte group. The downside is that Navigators tend to probably still get burnt by yokels for being a mutant and unless the group has a ship, then the majority of their skillset is completely redundant.

Navigator going in at 5500xp should be roughly on-par with acolytes of that level, starting levels? No.

A Navis is probably useful in a few situations:

1) with charm +10, disguise, inquiry, carouse +10, decadance, peer (Gov, Nobility), Good Rep (any one), a navis scion is good at dealing with authorities, high born or folk who recognise what a navigator - dealing with backward zealots is probably a bad idea, someone will try to save you (prob the local Ecclesacrhy - even the church recognises the need for your type of mutant, and the power of the navigator houses) but might not get to you in time to stop the lynching - note that scions have very minor mutations usually as compared to other navigators.

2) the navigator's 3rd eye allows you to directly perceive the warp - which can be very very useful when tracking pskers and daemons or other warp critters.

3) perception based and booster powers (forshadowing, gaze into the abyss, tracks in the stars) are very useful powers for an investigative team.

4) with commerce +10, barter, hard bargain & speak trader's cant, a Navis scion is the financial / commercial go to guy of the group. These skills can come in useful when investigating a heretic mercantile group or the money trail of noble.

It is pretty much very likely that you will never navigate a the warp in a DH campaign (inquisitors seldom have the need for something as noticeable and expensive as a voidfaring ship on a long term basis) unless you are on a ship and all the other navigators aboard get whacked.

You might wish to consider the Houses from which you recruit if you wish to play a Navigator in DH. A Magisterial scion might be destabilising, not so much from the point of view of his skills and powers as rather from his resources. With a lesser Navis Nobilite House having a profit factor of 100, it might be a bit too much of a good thing. The Shrouded, Magisterial or Nomadic Houses will probably be easier to work with. Even if those houses might be powerful as well.

Friedrich van Riebeeck, Navigator Primus, Heart of the Void

I would remove and convert profit factor to thrones. Having profit factor in DH doesn't make sense especially when other characters use thrones. Also unlike a Rogue Trader, the Navis Houses are not military organizations nor are they authorized to wield military power - so military grade gear is just as hard to get as other DH characters. Anyway, just because your character is serving an Inquisitor as an agent does not mean you have full access to house resources to support your boss. Also seperate personal and house resources serves to protect your house by creating a buffer in case your boss turns out to be a condemned radical.

Navigator Houses are just as limited as Noble Houses as to what they might or might not aquire. Obviously, a lesser scion will not have the full resources of a House at its disposal, but he remains part of the family, with all the perks that entails. Used to good food, being waited on, having all the cahs wished for sundry expenses...not that this would not make a nice contrast when dropped in DH, but something to plan in your story. At least, they will have the income of nobility, but more properly would belong to the Unbound classes, as the ancient convenants between the Navis Nobilite and the Imperium give them a unique position. So, either ensure there is a good background reason as to why the navigator can not use part of that wealth, or go for the Shrouded or Renegade Houses.

FvR