I read here and there in topics about nightmare mode, but i haven't yet understand everything:

What happens to heroes resource's pools

what happens to allies in play?

What happens to heroes attachment, even the condition ones?

What happens to my play hand?

This is a OT:if I play Will of the West do I Shuffle even it into my deck or it remains in the discard pile?

Resources go away, allies go away, attachments go away, cards in hand are discarded.

When you play a card, you resolve its effects and then discard it. So, WIll of the West does not reshuffle itself.

Perfect.

Bohemond said:

Not that I disagree with you, but where did you get this information?

Robert

GodRob said:

The rule book. The only changes that you make to the normal rulers are as follows.

"For a “nightmare” level challenge, do not reset threat, hit points, or player decks at the beginning of each scenario."

So, you don't get to start with anything in play. You get a normal six card hand. If the rules don't say you do something differently in nightmare, you play like a standard game.

Bohemond said:

RULEBOOK:
"For a 'nightmare' level challenge, do not reset threat, hit points, or player decks at the beginning of each scenario."

I don't see the link between 'do not reset... player decks' meaning Will of the West and other cards don't work as normal.
After *the beginning of each scenario*, the game is as it always was.



My interpretation of the nightmare rules:

- Threat levels remain as is. (not reset)
- Hit points (on characters) remain as is. (not reset)
- The new Encounter deck is shuffled and all cards in play from the old encounter deck are removed from play. (reset)
- Players don't draw a new hand, as that is related to the player deck. (not reset)
- Players don't remove any characters or attachments from play, as that is part of the player deck. (not reset)

Resources are not mentioned... (so why make any changes?)

Will of the West never reshuffles itself, nightmare has nothing to do with it.

The rules are quite clear on the order of operations for events.

"An event card is played from a player’s hand, its text effects are resolved, and the card is then placed in its owner’s discard pile."

The description of the nightmare rules tell you, explictly, what steps you take that are different from simply starting a new scenario. They tell you, specifically, what factors carry over. Anything they don't mention doesn't carry over.

Your interpretation is completly inconsistent with the game elements they do mention. You suggest that their is an implicit instructions that any elements not mentioned carry over. That's exactly the opposite of what they have written. If your reading were correct, their would be no need to mention "do not reset... hitpoints" because they would carry over, as you have suggested resources d.

The notion that cards in play and cards in hand are "part of the deck" is compeltly unsupported. Imagine the follwing situation. A shadow effect tells you "Place 5 cards from your deck in the discard pile." Would you take cards in your hand and discard them? Or allies and attachments? Cards in play are cards in play, cards in your hand are cards in your hand, and cards in the deck are in the deck.

Essentially, you have a nine card quest deck.
(ie. moving from scenario 1: 3B - scenario 2: 1A is similar to moving from scenario 1: 1B - 2A.)

This poster seemed to think the same way;
http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp?efid=201&efcid=4&efidt=492091



If Nightmare mode means starting scenario 2 & 3 basically as you would normally, but with slightly higher than normal threat and wounds... then why bother?
It's not new.

Playing an extended 'gauntlet' scenario of 9 quest cards from a single starting hand of 6 cards, used wisely across three quests, seems far more interesting to me.

I thinq the rules doesn't really answer to our doubts...but after all, if you keep your allies and attachments, resources and your hands I would call it noob mode, not nightmare...the game is already easier if you keep your threat.

But I think you should reshuffle them in your deck, not to put them in the discard pile, since they wern't defeated!

First of all, as a cooperative card games, you should play however you want. The whole goal is to have fun. If you want to run a 9 card quest deck, have at it! However, that's not what nightmare mode is, according to the rules.

As Ileopsoas says, there is some ambiguity about what happens to cards on hand and in play, but the ambiguity centers around whether they are shuffled back into the deck or put into the discard pile. But they don't continue in play.

The way we've been running it is as follows:

Do not discard attachments, allies, encounter cards in play. Gives a feeling of campaign

Discard resources, discard hand buy 6 cards. Gives a feeling of passing from one quest to another.

Limit two allies per hero.

Add one more type of card to the encounter deck (as I bought 2 boxes) The deck is more dangerous that way (3 hill trolls, 2 spawns).

For 3 players 4 encounter cardsduring staging phase and 4 players 6 encounter cards.

It's very challenging but also very fun as well.

Well, I see that everybody has their own interpretation of the Nightmare rules

Need an [o]fficial answer in here!

Emrad said:

Not really. Its a solo game. Run nightmare however you think it will be run. This isn't a question of rules interpretations. The way most people seem to play nightmare has nothing to do with what is written in the rules. It's simply the way they want to play. I am uncertain why that requires an official statement.

Be the archetypal stubborn guy if you wish, but it is definitely an unclear matter. Nobody's right or wrong until now, and that's the problem.

I can imagine you'll go "I told you so" if you happen to be correct after all, but without rule clarification possible now, that would have just been an educated guess.

Read this thread, or many of the other threads on nightmare. The problem isn't confusion, the problem is that people want the rules to work differently. These is absolutely zero ambiguity abou whether resources should carry over. Yet, people still suggest that they do. There is zero ambiguity about wehter or not allies an attachment's carry over.

"For an expert level challenge, players can attempt to defeat all 3 scenarios using the same combination of players, decks, and heroes. The score from each scenario can then be added together to get a single score measuring overall success on the entire campaign. For a “nightmare” level challenge, do not reset threat, hit points, or player decks at the beginning of each scenario. When playing such a campaign, the players should start with the “Passage through Mirkwood” scenario, follow with the “Journey Down the Anduin” scenario, and finish with the “Escape from Dol Guldur” scenario."

There are the nightmare rules in their enterity. Show me where in the text these ideas are supported. They just aren't there. The rules are very specific about the limited things which carry over. However, people don't like the rules so they pretend they are vague and make up their own rules.

All of which is fine, since the nightmare rules don't work praticularly well and can end up making the game easier. But let's just admit that we are coming up with our own variations because we enjoy them more, not because of a lack of specificity in the rules.

Bohemond said:

So then basically what you are saying, is that you empty the heroes' resource pool at the beginning of the 2nd and 3rd scenario on Nightmare Mode and also discard any attachments and allies from play before starting a new scenario on Nightmare Mode? And people beat Nightmare Mode in this fashion whether it's solo or co-op?

Bohemond said:

Whilst I agree with you partly, and I play the Nightmare as you described it, you cannot be serious as to claiming that the rules are clear. They simply are not. To me or to many others. And I am not an idiot or even below par intelligent and I guess others are neither.

lleimmoen said:

As I stated earlier in this thread, yes, there are a couple of ambiguities concerning whether you place cards in your deck or in your discard pile at the end of each scenario. However, most of the "uncertainty" around Nightmare mode doesn't come from the text being unclear, it comes from people wanting the rules to change. No one in this thread has shown interest in talking about the the actual text of the rules, instead people are talking about how they want house rules for a campaign mode to work. Which is fine, but that doesn't require some official FAQ.

By and large, the rules for Nightmare are clear.

Hahma said:

I have beat Nightmare mode solo with those rules. Not only that, but using those rules actually makes it easier, in some cases, than just playing the scenario straight through. I can't beast 'Escape from Dol Goldur' solo in normal mode, but I can beat it in 'Nightmare', which seems hideously backwards to me.

If wounds carry over, what happens to the prisoner in scenario 3?

Does he

1 - Have one and only one wound token

2 - Add a wound if he doesn't have any

or

3 - Add another wound which could in fact kill him?

Geoff

Bohemond said:

I don't understand how that would make it easier to win that way than playing normal mode. You'd start out with wounds and a higher threat, but less cards in your deck to draw from. Unless of course you have a deck that lowers your threat by so much that it's lower when getting to Dol Goldur than if you started from scratch in normal mode. If that's the case though, wouldn't that be limiting the deck you can build as you would have to include threat reducing sphere/cards in your deck? Why bother having other spheres if you would just can plug in Spirit and win all the time? I'm not saying that's the case, but am just wondering if that's the trick for most people to beat the scenarios in Nightmare mode. "shrug"

Cider, I would think it would have to be 3. I can't see anything in the rules that would indicate 1 or 2.

Hahma said:

In my nightmare run I used a spirit/lore deck. And, yes, I do think those spheres are best oriented to overcoming the challenges of nightmare. I would agree that I don't think nightmare mode works that well right now.

It makes it easier when you finish the first quest with lower threats than you started. We play coop and normally start with 31 & 28. That makes the quest down the Anduin tough in the beginning. But we would mostly finish Mirkwood with lower threat - around 26+ using Gandalf and/or Galadhrim. That makes a great difference to the Anduin quest because you've got more time to prepare for the troll and draw Forest Snare for instance. We beat Nightmare pretty much every time now (not reseting threat and decks - discarding hands and drawing new sets, keeping damage, discarding attachments and allies) and both Anduin and Dol Guldur are easier than single game.

ps: and we don't even stall but always trying to finish the campaign in least possible number of turns...still you have a very decent chance to draw the required cards, especially with a mulligan