Hello fellow Starcrafters!

Here are some questions about the mobilize order and battle situations which can happen. Please elaborate your answers, so we can clear these misunderstandigs once and for all!

1) What is the EXACT mobilize order sequence? We've been playing it like this:

- move terran base to a friendly area (if applicable)

- move units into friendly and empty areas of the planet

- announce area of battle

- announce units which are attacking

- play event cards (like +2 health, battle canceled, ...) attacker 1st, defender 2nd

- draw combat cards

- attacker sets up skirmishes, his support units, defender sets his support units

- attacker places cards

- defender places cards

- attacker plays cards

- defender plays cards

2) The main pointsof dispute are the "move terran base" and "play event cards" steps. Are we playing them in correct order?

3) About the battle is canceled no cards drawn card: if attacker destroys his transport against anti-air module, is he permitted to move the excess of units back to his planet or do they die. Same question without that card: example: if attacker attacke an area with limit 2 with 4 units and destroys his transport, wins battle with all 4 remaining units, does he have to destroy 2, as they can not retreat (transport destroyed)?

4) If the attacker plays the event cards first, does "battle is canceled" event card by the defender cancle the attackers "+2 health" card - is the card simply discarded?

5) If you have 2 full areas on the same planet, can you for example switch 2 units with a mobilize order (as if the moves are taking place simultaneusly)?

Thanks for the answers!

No opinions? Please comment.

My interpretation is this:

The Terran ability to move bases doesn't have an extra step in the mobilize order - it just allows the Terran player to move a base just like he'd move any other unit, and in the same "Move Units" step.

Also, announcing which units move where and whatnot, for that there's no differentiation between empty and enemy and friendly areas on the target planet. There are just areas the units move into, and just one of those areas is allowed to be controlled by an enemy.

Then, in the second step, if there is an area that was moved into which is controlled by an enemy, a battle occurs. There's just those two steps that are mentioned on pages 23-24 in the SC rulebook.

In the battle itself then, event cards indeed have to be played at the very start of the battle (most of them, anyway, and they specificially mention "at the start of a battle"). This is indeed before skirmishes are established or anything else in the battle has happened, or it wouldn't be the start anymore.

So the exact sequence of a mobilize order is, simply:

1. Move units
2. Resolve Battle

The exact sequence of a battle then is, pretty much as written on pages 29-33:

1. Play "at the start of a battle" cards or resolve effects, resolved attacker first, defender second (and only one such effect per side may resolve, see page 29)
2. Combat cards are drawn
3. Attacker establishes skirmishes and places his support units
4. Defender places his support units
5. If the defender has a defensive module, he can switch units now
6. Cards are placed, attacker first, defender second
7. Cards are revealed and skirmishes resolved (including discarding units and cards)
8. Splash damage is resolved
9. Retreats are resolved

So, your questions...

2) Pretty much, although there's just one big fat "move everything" step and the exact order in there doesn't matter.

3) The offensive module (BW rulebook page 8) allows the attacker to destroy his transport to ignore the "Limited Orbital Defense", which is (SC rulebook page 41) that transports directly into enemy bases are not possible. So the transport is already destroyed when the battle starts, and can't be used for retreating anymore. It's still possible to retreat via another transport (maybe a Z Axis) or into an empty area on the active planet.

4) I guess that yeah, if one card is already played, the other one doesn't magically bring it back - the battle is not undone, but canceled, aborted, and everybody flees. There's no set order here, apparently, too (or it'd have to be around page 29 in the SC rulebook), so first come first get. You can always ask your opponent if he wants to use a start of battle card first before you use your +2 health one - in case of troubles, I guess the attacker has to go first as always (although, as I said, the rules are not explicit here).

5) I think that makes sense, yeah. They are all happening in the same step anyway, even in the same bullet point inside that step ("Move friendly units from one or more areas on the active planet to one or more areas on the active planet"). Everything else sounds like rules lawyering to me, too, the kind of "it's not explicitly allowed although it would make sense thematically, so it's not allowed" ... but, I guess it's best to house rule this the way it makes sense for you, since thematic arguments are always difficult and subjective.

Thanks!

Stll, I think the order of things should be specified more clearly. Here's a situation that happened - last turn of a Brood War game, special victory at hand for the team that is losing in all other areas. The special victory condition was: 3 bases on different planets. The player needing to fulfill the objective (let's call him: friend) has a build order underneath all the others. There's an enemy's mobilize above it.

The enemy mobilizes, doesn't move units, just attack the only area containing friend's units. Friend uses battle is canceled event card, and the attacker says, wait wait, I wanted to fill all other area with units first. He could have. It was kind of awkward, since the game was at stake and was won on a technicality be friend.

One more thing: how do you play "move terran base"? Can a terran player mobilize - move units into empty area and then move base into the same area?

supermedo said:

Once you start the battle, you say "OK, movement step done, we're getting to the battle step now". Once the battle step has started, there is no further moving. That's quite clear in the rules. On the other hand, the battle doesn't start immediately after he moves his units into enemy territory (since all movements are fluff-wise synchronous), but only when he says "OK, movement done, let's battle".

Also, there is no "just battle" without moving units. A battle only happens when units from two factions are in the same area, and in order for that to happen, one of the factions has to have moved in there. That sounds like nitpicking, but is important in game mechanics terms, since movements and battles are such distinct steps within the mobilize order.

supermedo said:

I'd like to quote the Terran faction sheet here

" Liftoff: When executing a Mobilize order, if you have a base on the active planet, you may move it to any friendly area on the planet."

It's a move like any other, so it happens in the movement step. And that means, when a terran player mobilizes, he can move his base from any area on the active planet to any (friendly) area on the active planet, and it doesn't matter whether he does that before moving units or afterwards, as long as it's within the same movement step. He can even move his base out of an area the enemy just overtook into another one that still has some of his units.

If you played the computer game that was the inspiration for the board game - the terran base isn't moved by their units or anything, the buildings themselves are able to lift off and (slooowly) drift from one spot to another, and when they land there they're fully functional again (and can produce new units and all). Maybe imagining that helps.

I think Haslo summed it up very nicely. Probably with a lot less words than I would have used too.

I think that makes friendly area meaning clearer now: an area doesn't become friendly during the mobilize order when you move units into an area. It is friendly only if before the execution of the order, there are units or bases or installations present (and no enemy units ofc).

About the movement/battle discussion: I guess it is important to separate movement into friendly/empty and movement into enemy, which can happen only once - at the end of the Mobilize order, because the latter instantly triggers a battle.

Thanks for the confirmations, I think we've playing it by the book so far.

supermedo said:

Yes and no - it's possible only once, but it doesn't instantly trigger a battle. It triggers a battle after the player entered, when he decides to end the movement step of his mobilize order. He can easily move a couple other units first and only then progress to the battle step - only, he can't enter another enemy area then, and the battle will happen in the one he already entered.

But of course only moving into the enemy area last simplifies things, so it can make sense to play it like that.

About the distinction between enemy, friendly and empty areas, that's the way I see it as well.

This part of what you do is causing the confusion in your games I think:

- move terran base to a friendly area (if applicable)

- move units into friendly and empty areas of the planet

- announce area of battle

- announce units which are attacking

All the above are not needed and meanlingless within the rules. Movement has two sub phases. All movement and only then, combat:

You first move ALL your units to friendly, empty and enemy areas. You can only enter one enemy area per mobilisation order. The Terran Base moves at any time during those movements you wish.

Once you have moved ALL your units you wish you may then have one contested terriitory which is where you and the enemy share an area. You then and only then do the combat, AFTER all movement has taken place.

There is no annoucing or declaring needed at all.

I have repeated what others said above me but from one of your replies Im not sure you got it right still:)

If you do the above the event card timing falls into place. Its a battle step so AFTER all movemet has happened.

supermedo said:

I think you may have missed the intended meaning here:

"It's a move like any other, so it happens in the movement step. And that means, when a terran player mobilizes, he can move his base from any area on the active planet to any (friendly) area on the active planet, and it doesn't matter whether he does that before moving units or afterwards , as long as it's within the same movement step." (emphasis is mine)

What Haslo was getting at is that you can move the base to an area that is friendly before you move units OR to an area that is friendly after you have moved all the units with this mobilize order. Then after doing all movement (including base movement) you can resolve a battle if there is one. So you couldn't move a base into an area where you are having a battle as it is not friendly at the time of the move.

I just realized there were more posts following the one above by supermedo that just made this post moot. Sorry for the duplication.

Yeah, I realized after writing "I see it that way as well" that I don't. An area doesn't have to have been friendly at the start of the mobilize order in order to be friendly later.

Although movements and building and all happen synchronously fluff-wise, their order is still important in game mechanics terms.

An example of a rules question that popped up on the old forums once (I think, or it was the BGG ones, no clue) - the question whether it's possible to build Archons out of High Templars and High Templars from scratch within the same build order. It's not possible to build Archons from scratch of course by building High Templars and then with those the Archon right away, but it is possible to, for example, build an Archon and two High Templars within the same build order, even if three High Templars are in play before the build order already (and thus if the High Templars would be built before the Archon, there'd be too few High Templar miniatures for the five resulting ones).

Halfinger's summary of the movement step is very good, too.

Did the Archon question get resolved? It is in nature similar to the base movement scenario.

My vote is: you CAN build an archon within the same build order, but can not, if you have 3 other templars in play on different planets. You can, of course, destroy them at will. In this spirit (order of actions within an order irrelevant), one could mobilize on a planet, transport a unit into an empty area (making it friendly) and move his base there.

Aye, teh similarity was why I brought it up - the consensus was that yes, it is possible, if two of the High Templar were on the planet where the Archon is being built.

I believe that you could indeed move units and then a base in the then friendly, formerly empty area.

Last question

Can I mobilize on a planet with my base, move unit into an empty area making it friendly, move my base into this area, and then move the unit away, for example to an enemy area on the same planet?

Don't be silly

And no, you can't move units into an empty area from another planet and then into the enemy base that has an anti-air module either