Hey all, I've encountered a problem in my game of Deathwatch and thought I would come here for help.

In the current mission I'm running with the Kill-Team, they have been sent to investigate a dying Tyranid Hive Ship floating above a dead world. They were ordered by their Watch Captain to destroy the hive ship, attempt to find out what happened to the foolish Adeptus Mechanicus team that went aboard before them, and if possible, retrieve samples of living tyranid organisms for study. Upon reaching the planet, a member of the crew revealed himself as a member of the Ordo Xenos and has ordered the Kill-Team to return a Hive Tyrant alive to him for return to Erioch.

Now that you know the background, here's the problem...

The Kill-Team managed to capture the Hive Tyrant alive using a large number of Webs from the Astartes Webber in RoB, and currently have it secured and are trying to work out how to get it back to the ship. The trouble is one of the players doesn't want to take it alive. He says screw the Inquisition, he wants it dead, and he says this is his character's belief. This is perfectly within his right as he is roleplaying his character's desires. But the other 4 players want to return it alive, including the Squad Leader. But the player in question doesn't care and says he's going to do everything possible to kill the Tyrant. The arguing between them has increased, with the Librarian second-in-command and the Devastator threatening to kill the player in question for insubordination and mutiny if he tries to defy the orders of the Inquisition and the Squad Leader.

I was wondering if anybody has any advice as to what I should do to try and control the situation and to stop the arguing. Should I let the team kill the player if they really want? Or should I introduce an element or character to stop this from happening? And if I do let them kill him, what consequences should the remainder of the Kill-Team face for killing a battle-brother, even one who defied orders?

First thing would be to dock a point or two of Cohesion because of their inability to get on. The team is fractured and this should be represented by the mechanic put in place to represent team-work.

Next up, remind the players that they all agreed on a leader for the mission, and that last word on the matter should reside there.

I'd also remind the characters about their years of hypno conditioning. They are warriors who are supposed to obey without question. It's hard-wired into them. They are perfect soldiers, who should know better than to argue in a warzone. They are supposed to be their Chapter's finest, screened for suitability. Not someone who elects to disobey orders that they don't agree with on their first mission. Remind ALL of them of this, not just the one dissenter.

If that doesn't work... then let it ride. Let them bicker, and let the characters do what they want. Let the dissenter put a bolt round through the creature's skull if he can get away with it. Get them back to Erioch, have reports get filed, and then RTU the dissenter in disgrace. The Deathwatch is not obliged to keep members who are incapable of doing their job. It's harsh, but the character was selected for the Deathwatch, and to serve the Deathwatch. It doesn't matter what the character thinks of xenos: Deathwatch are employed to often capture and sometimes even co-operate with such creatures. If the character shows that they are incapable of doing so, cannot follow the orders of an Inquisitor, and cannot obey their squad leader then... there is no place for them in the Watch. Let them generate a replacement character and start afresh.

The brother in question should remember that he has been *ordered* to retrieve living tyranid material. Space marines can disobey orders and deathwatch marines are more likely to be a little more "independent minded" but this should not be the norm. Bear in mind that the mission of the Deathwatch is to protect humanity from the Xenos. Even the fanatical black shield Chaplain on Watch Fortress Erioch is quoted as in favour of taking aliens alive to study them to better kill them later. All brothers involved should bear in mind their mission, the honour of their chapters and the success of the Deathwatch rests on shoulders such as theirs. If a brother is threatening the mission, then it could be because of alien influence trying to deny humanity precious knowledge. Non-lethal or lethal means are acceptable as necessary to safeguard the mission IMO.

SonOfCorax said:

The problem is the Team Leader's order. The unruly Space Marine is used to taking orders from his Sergeant or his Captain and obeying them without question or regard for his own life. Now that makes of course for less fun roly-playing if everyone is a mindless robot. Also you have to give guys in the DW some slack for coming together from different chapters with different points of view, etc.

And still it is insubordination. If your unruly Marine is a Black Templar, it would be understandable if he did such a fuss and might be good role-playing. The others, otoh, might also play their character well, especially when from a Codex-adherent chapter.

It's situations like these who in my mind are really fun and part of the challenge of role-playing. You maneuever yourself and the group from which there seems no way out and if everyone is willing to compromise... perhaps there is still a way out.

In summary I'd say this: warn the unruly player that he in fact is committing a severe violation. Warn the others that sacred blood is not to be spillt lightly. That will leave the party in a dilemma to resolve on their own. It's here where the true character surfaces (or doesn't). If the team makes any effort towards compromise, reconcilliation, resolution - aid them. If they don't, let chips fall and if even one PC dies at the hand of another, have the survivors be severely punished.

The former is mastering a challenge (in this case a role-playing challenge ), the latter is failing it - akin to failing to beat a master-tier enemy (which is essentially a combat challenge ).

Alex

Well, this is a situation that should be dealt with by the present kill-team leader. If that happened while my Chaplain was the kill-team leader, I'd tell him to rethink his desicion and remind him that we work for the Inquisition and as a member of Death Watch he chose to obey the commands of the Inquisition and his kill-team leader. If he still continued to rebel against the mission...well, his face would meet the crozius arcanum and act as an example to the rest of the kill-team members as to what happens when you disobey your superios while in the service of Death Watch. However, if the kill-team leader is demanding his kill-team to do some ridiculous ****, just because he's in charge, my Chaplain would quickly make him re-think his desicion making and kill-team members should do the same.

Heck, my old Death Watch Captain would have put him in his place and if that failed I would have shot him in the face with my storm bolter. Disobey the Death Watch Captain and disregard the mission from the Inquisistion was becoming of a heretic to my Death Watch Captain, he didn't run debates on what needed to happen. Although, the kill-team learned real quick that I didn't put up with shinanagens. They witnessed several executions on my behalf because of questioning my authority. Because of that, there was never a problem with my kill-team.

Don't get me wrong. I don't go around pushing my weight and/or authority around, however, the kill-team understood/understands my role in the kill-team very well and know of the benefits I brought/bring with my Death Watch Captain and now Chaplain. I don't speak often but when I do they listen. Heck, last night I followed all orders given to me by my kill-team leader, even when I disagreed with certain desicions. I had to show the rest of the kill-team that even the Chaplain obeys orders from the kill-team leader.

I'm a firm believer that kill-team leaders need to do there role in order to prove to the Death Watch they are capable leaders and get the mission done. My Chaplain doesn't lead the kill-team in most missions. This is purely for role-playing purposes, he aids the kill-team leader with certian situations and may strongly suggest a thing or two; however, I leave it up to the kill-team leader to make the final desicion about what needs to be done. I just charge the biggest **** and show the kill-team that I am a force to be feared!

I'd be interested to hear from the OP how this turned out...

Thank you to everyone for their input so far, I've got a pretty good idea of what I'll do/let happen when we have our next session in a few days.

The Librarian player pulled out a quote from The Hunt for Voldorius today in our group message that pretty much convinced the unruly player that Space Marines would nearly always follow orders, especially since the squad leader is a veteran from the same Chapter as the unruly player. He says in the light of actual written facts he probably won't disobey a direct order, but he'll do the best he can to try and convince the rest of the team otherwise. So we'll see if they hold true to what was said today at the session.

Thank you again for all the advice!

The other option, if the time is there that you settle it as all manly Space Marines should if communication breaks down: with a no weapon duel. If my party ever comes to logger heads and there's not an enemy about to kill them I let them duke it out, til one pins the other effectively, to show they are true and have the Emperor's favour. Of course there are two Space wolves and a Storm Warden in my player pool.

Just my two cents.

Player consenus goes a long way.

Have the players cast a quick vote outside the normal flow of the game, possibly arguing about their stand points, or bringing something new into the light. Once sorted there, the player consensus is carried out in game - this does not need all characters must be happy with it (even if their players are and so on). It may have consequences further down the game, which is a cool part of roleplaying!

Feels like metaplaying? I dunno, I have absolutly no experience being a gene-modified combat monster with experience of a century or two of constant war. Sometimes player convictions may override character logic. What I do know, is that some OOC discussion to avoid an eventual fallout that could hurt the game rather severely, even if everyone is acting IC - perhaps in particular if they are. If something causes stress on players (not characters! character stress is good!), it's probably something better solved by OOC consensus.

If this hasn't already been decided, it's worth remembering that in the reality of the game, this 'dissenting' Marine had done something to distinguish himself in his Chapter and earned the honor of serving with the Deathwatch. It's just not plausible that many Chapters would deliberately send a marine to the Deathwatch who was likely to bring dishonor to the Chapter.

While it's possible that a Marine might end up doing something that the Deathwatch frowns upon, it's not probably going to be something that the Deathwatch routinely does. Marines know that the Deathwatch both kills and captures aliens. The Chapter isn't going to send someone who refuses to capture them to serve, any more than they would send a Marine who could no longer fight.

It might be realistic roleplaying of a random Marine of the parent Chapter, but it isn't realistic roleplaying of a Marine seconded to the Deathwatch. Similarly, while an individual Black Templar might refuse to ever serve alongside Pyskers, no matter what, that Marine isn't going to be sent to the Deathwatch, where he will be expected to do so.

Players need to generate characters that fit inside the constraints of the game being played. That isn't metagaming. If there's no possibility of encountering an Elf on in your Fantasy campaign, you don't make an elf, either.

It kind of depend why he wants it dead. If it is just a general hate the Xenos kind of thing then Cloten is correct that this kind of marine would not have been suited to the Deathwatch in the first place. If on the other hand he has some other reason like 'I think the Inquisitor is going to use it for nefarious radical ends' or 'It is simply objectively too dangeorus to bring this Hive Tyrant to point A for this [iNSERT] reason' then I think the marine can be given some leeway and his brother marines should at least hear him out.

You would need to know why the Marine doesn't want a Hive Tyrant brought back. One are they 100% sure the guy looking for it is Ordo Xenos, it was a Watch Captain sent them on the mission, and I assume they were not informed of an Inqusitors presnece, that in itself would raise questions to me, also a Hive Tyrant is VERY dangerous, and there are already Tyranid specimins at Erioch, so introducting a Hive Tyrant could cause some serious problems, outright insobordination might be out of the question, but blind trusting someone who wants to take a Hive Tyrant alive when you didn't know he was there isn't exactly intelligent.

Capturing xenos leaders when possible, particuarly tyranid leadership organisms, seems to be pretty much SOP for the Deathwatch. I don't logically see why such a character would even have been selected to serve in the Deathwatch if he isn't capable of such a basic mission of that chapter.