Hiyas!

I'm having trouble picturing this in my mind (maybe I'm being too picky?)

How would the DW infiltrate a KT team into a hive, let's say, & keep it covert (as if the KT is not there - no one knows about it's presence, etc.,) the whole mission?

I mean, SM do tend to stick out, usually!

Can it be done at all?

Special eq?

Lotsa Concealment/Silent Move rolls?

Huge cloaks & wide-brimmed hats?

Something else I'm overlooking?

(I'm planning this type of mission & was wondering if I oughta make special eq available to the KT... For instance.)

THANKS!

L

How about just keeping it to the Underhive; in the dark tunnels. In the half-light the gangs might not even recognise who the armoured giants really were; and even if they did everyone above is just going to consider any reports to be "mere tales from the Underside, good for frightening little children but not to be taken seriously".

It might help if you could tell us exactly what you wanted them to do in the hive?

DW

PS. Of course there is one way they could keep knowledge of their presence a total secret ...... kill anyone they meet!

Hiyas!

All right: the gist of the mission:

Assasinate/capture a very dangerous recidivist - reports of his presence in the Hive are accurate. If his presence is know by the general public, then all hell breaks loose! He's that infamous. Several planets have been almost decimated or disrupted by this individual's actions.

The KT has to quietly go in, ****** him/kill him & come out, w/out leaving any trace.

Like a certain Great Threat Terrorist was done in by the USA not long ago... Hmmm.

L

I feel certain that the answer lies in the use of secretly developed Stealth Thunderhawks, possibly incorporating heretical technology that must be kept hidden from the wider Mechanicus.

--

I'd go with cloaks and hats. Marines are big, but they are not that big. Ogryns are substantially bigger (and Ratlings and possibly the odd Squat much smaller), and a lot of gangers/nobles bodyguards/mercenaries will have used gene therapy or grafts of vat grown muscle and related surgery to give themselves physiques sufficiently large that Marines won't be all that unusual.

In short, when a substantial number of headbangers look like this guy:-

undercover Marines may actually seem a little small. And that is without getting in to the ineveitable mutants!

I feel certain that the streets of the average Imperial Hive are at least as cosmopolitan as those from the bustling metropolises found in the Shadowrun RPG.

Other possibilites might include a free running/parkour style insertion across the rooftops or use of predator style cloaking devices (again heretekal technology) and sensor jammers.

Seems like that Marines might not be the right tool for the job, and perhaps an Inquisitorial retinue would be more in keeping for it.

The Deathwatch don't blend in, and some adventures simply aren't suitable for them. My advice would be to change the mission around a bit so that it doesn't stretch narrative that Marines would be sent instead of characters better for the job (ie a DH party or an assassin!)

Siranui said:

I see your point Siranui, but maybe the villain of the piece is just too tough to be taken out by an Inquisitorial force (and that is not a happy thought!).

AW - nice idea; it reminds me of the Draco novels where a SM captain went "undercover" posing as an abhuman to accompany the inquisitor.

If the DW leave their armour and signature weapons (cue lots of wailing and gnashing of teeth; and a good excuse for the marines to get to play with other weapon types for a change) they could pass themselves off as a new gang in the Underhive, and woe betide any who would cross their path!

DW

Traveller61 said:

Given that Inquisitorial forces can include the intervention of an Temple Assassin (beings who are arguably deadlier than the Adeptus Astartes, and more suited to covert operations), that's a fairly steep expectation.

Regardless, my inclination would be to employ the Deathwatch as a second wave in a two-stage operation - the first stage is a skilled group of undercover operatives (Throne Agents, more suited to this sort of infiltration), carrying a Teleport Homer to bring the waiting Kill-Team into action when subterfuge is no longer required or at a prearranged time. If you've got the inclination, the players could even play through both sections - taking the role of the Throne Agents until the Kill-Team is brought in.

Personally, I see Deathwatch Covert ops being more stealth than deception - Scout Armour and Camelioline Cloaks, silenced weaponry and combat blades. Insertion into a hive city may be difficult (not impossible, but certainly difficult), with the mission being more about avoiding notice and eliminating witnesses swiftly and silently, maybe even with a measure of old fashioned Night Lords style psychological warfare. Maybe even combine that with the above - a teleport homer and a supply vault on an orbiting teleportarium-equipped vessel allows them to discard stealth and prepare for true battle should the situation call for it.

Hiyas!

AFTBRN:

I thought that some "standard" DW missions in the corebook included assassinations. Am I mistaken?

All right, what about a recoignissance/surveillance mission that turns for the worst & they have to engage the enemy? Will that be plausible?

Thanks for all the input!

L

"(...) even with a measure of old fashioned Night Lords style psychological warfare."

Excuse my ignorance, but, what are the Night Lords?

Thanks!

L

LETE said:

VIIIth Legionnes Astartes, The Night Lords, from the night-shrouded hive world of Nostromo and led by Primarch Conrad Kurze (known as the Night Haunter). During the Great Crusade, employed psychological warfare - specifically terror tactics - to conquer and render compliant the worlds they claimed for the Imperium. The Night Lords were chastised by the Emperor for their savage methods, which Curze felt to be hypocrisy on the Emperor's part, and the Night Lords chose to side with Horus during the Heresy.

Contemporary Night Lords are scattered into disparate warbands across the galaxy, some of which have devoted themselves to Chaos while others remain aloof from it, holding onto their Primarch's legacy of hatred and vengeance instead. In all cases, they continue to employ the terror tactics in their raids and wars.

In short: the Night Lords are Space Marines, one of the original Legions that betrayed the Emperor, who excel at using fear and intimidation as weapons.

Siranui said:

It has to be said that SEALs don't blend in very well either... You can't really send twelve huge, bulky white guys aged between 25 and 35 in tight crew cuts to backlands of Pakistan and expect no-one to pay any attention to them. It just doesn't go like that. Soldiers tend to stand out even if they are not marines and elite soldiers in big groups DEFINITELY get attention even if they wear jeans and T-shirts. Thats just the way of the world. Up in Real World things are usually done in this way:

- A range of Intelligence Specialists and technical assets are employed to locate Osam... erhm, "Target".

- When "Target" is located the Strike Team comes in to finish it.

In this context Inquisitorial Acolytes are the "Intelligence Specialists" and Space Marines are the "Strike Team". So you send a DH party to locate the Target. Then you bring in the DW party to kill the target.

You can run this scenario in full Deathwatch, too, but in this case it involves the DW team sitting in stealth-thunderhawk, coordinating all the intelligence assets (human and technology) untill the Target is located for them to come in an End-Mission Bossfight starts.

Hiyas!

'Scuse me again, but if this is usually the standard procedure, why would the DW send just a lonely KT from the get go into the Chaos Forge World Samech in Emperor Protects' last mission?

Thanks!

L

LETE said:

LETE how dare you bring logic in to the discussion!

How about the Inquisition have a deep cover mole in the hive who has identified the target; his or her reports will lead the team to target. Then on the way in all contact is lost

Now the team has to complete the mission the best they can (and maybe rescue the Inquisitorial asset?). Of course if the raid is going to be quick in and out do they need any disguises as it will all be over in a matter of hours, and will become just one more wild legend of the hive...

DW

UK SAS have infilrated in Iraqi and afghan in the past but then unlike US special forces UK special forces dont tend to bulk out on protien shakes having a wiry strenght and more stamina , most UK paratroopers and marines are huge

anyway back to topic

my party is currently preparing to infiltarte Tarokeen city on Taros 5 years after the Taros campagin , here the city has various tau empire xenos wandering about as well as human miners and ogyrns so the party in desert clothing and no armour (just combat knives and robes which is making the party very nervous ) will pass off as large miners, small ogryns or hy breeds , in one of the space wolf books a Fallen passes himself off as a large catachen officer , infiltration can be fun and challenging for a kill team you can either go US appraoch and give them lots of hi tech gadgets to play with or go UK way , a robe a lack of shave and some balls and brains I dont think the marines size should be that big a barrier to covert ops

Hardrainfalling said:

Yeah, but that's pushing it, to my mind. Space Marines are huge, in perfect physical condition, move like panthers despite their size, and... have a Fel 10 points higher than normal people: They have a presence and almost tangible force of personality that's impossible to ignore.

Basically, I don't really hold with the 'just wear a sack and they'll think that we're Ogryns' thing. Certainly not without some levels of disguise, anyway!

Alpha Legionnaires made a point of infiltrating human societies. Through a combination of disguises (cloaks, psychic mindfogging, playing down their natural attributes) and outright stealth (bodygloves/scout carapace and no power armour means their natural agility shines). Chamelonine cloaks and stummers only add to the fun. It didn't hurt they had human agents to assist them.

Stealthy marine missions can be down, it just takes a bit more work and forethought than "Charge the xenos for the Emperor!".

Decessor said:

In a laughable and plot-hammer induced manner. It really doesn't help the suspension of disbelief. The second tale in Age of Darkness was made pretty lame by such an inclusion, when in reality, a 'proper' and more normal spy would have made a much better and believable protagonist.

true few are going to mistake a loosely colthed marine for an ogyrn but fellowship and prescene can be masked just as people can be taught to mask body language (part of my day job ) also depends on how much interaction the marines have had with humans eg space wolves are more open and friendly and possbily have more contact with humans

yes the fallen as a catachen was pushing it in the book especially when the other marines didnt notice , i suspect an astartes would recognise another pretty easily but in the Taros mission the Tau havent had a lot of contact with marines and the city has a lot of different xenos about a human or astartes might tell an ogyrn from a astartes but a short lived tau may not at first glance. I am not suggesting they can get away with it long term but just long enough

Personally I think you should send in the Throne Agents, but seeing as you're playing Deathwatch (is posting over here heresy?) I'll chip in my two cents.

Neither Assassination-Mission, nor Covert-Ops have to mean stealth, but I think marines 'sneaking' around a hive would just attract too much attention, However it can be done, just remember that 'stealth' doesn't have to mean hide in shadows and move silently. An assassination mission is where the mission goal is to kill a particular individual or individuals (the Israelis do this with Apache gunships -hardly 'stealthy'), and a covert mission just means is it not organised or announced through the usual channels (naval vessels do covert missions and the closest they come to 'stealth' is turning the emitters off - actual stealth vessels excepted of course).

Cargo lander flys into spaceport, delivering a shipping container full of marines to a wharehouse leased by Inq. Agents. In the warehouse out of public sight the marines transfer to a large delivery truck. Once the rest of the Inq. Agents positively ID the targets location, drive the truck right up to the target's door (or wherever). Do the deed, make sure there are no witnesses, change trucks during the getaway, repeat infiltration in reverse order to exfiltrate, and no one knows the marines were ever even in the city.

There you have yourself a perfectly plausable space marine covert assassination mission in a hive. Dress them in carapace and give them non-astartes weapons just to be sure, and melta bombs to get rid of any marine casualties (evidence) and you're laughing all the way back to the mess.

nice idea Zak , might pinch that one for later missions my self large delivery truck reminds me of the scene towards the end of where eagles dare as they flee pursuit in a bus heading for an airfield ...

One thing worth considering:

On any given Hive World most (many times all) people on the world have never seen even a glimpse of Space Marine outside the highly stylized statues and glass paintings of the local shrines and cathedrals. Certainly NONE have ever seen even a picture of Space Marine outside the power armor. If a Hive Worlder spots a Space Marine outside his armor he has absolutely no way of knowing, or even suspecting, that the huge, scarred and cyborged monster before him is a Space Marine... Yes, the Marines WILL stand out due to their huge size and all, but it is almost impossible for anyone to identify them as marines untill they start breaking out their signature wargear.

...Oh man, I just got a wonderfull Mission idea...

Thanks for the comliment HardRainFalling, please do steal, it would be a great compliment if you used one of my ideas to enhance your game.

@ Polaria. I agree that most people inthe Hive wouldn't know that they are SMs, but they would still stick out like sore thumbs. At a minimum to any military or enforcers who saw them would instantly recognise the 'hard bastard operators' message written all over them which would attract unwelcome attention at the least.

Having spent a bit of time in the miltary in multinational/plain clothes situations, the spec-forces bodyguard types always stuck out like sore thumbs, no matter how nice their suits were bcause nobody else had that look. With SMs this would be amplified ten fold so best just to not be seen I reckon.

Siranui said:

You're just jealous of their 1337 ninja skillz.

Just throwing this out there:

In the Adeptus Custodes short story in Tales of Heresy ( Blood Games , I think it was) the main character employs a holographic device that disguises his size and mass to better blend in among the citizenry. Granted, this is Heresy-era tech, but there is a precedent if you want to give your Kill-Team access to that sort of thing.

ddunkelmeister said:

No, I just think it's lame to use elite infantry slabs of muscle for jobs much better done by espionage professionals who'd do a much better job of it.

Why use a rare, expensive, and not-too-perfect holofield (kinda gives the game away when people bump into a guy who is bigger than he looks in a crowd, or when his hand is shaken, or when a short guy feels the need to bend and turn sideways to fit through normal sized doors), when you can just use someone who DOES blend in?

And apparently the Alpha legion have one-man warp-capable ships to hop around in, too /rolleyes. Laaaaame.

Siranui said:

Wow.............. The *only* time I saw that work was in the Soul Drinkers books