Are terms like "resource" and "exhausted" when refering to a card game trademarked? If someone were to make a card game that had a different "core" mechanic but used some similar terms would they get in trouble. I know MTG owns the word "tap" but I thought it was hard to pin these words down.

Master of R'lyeh said:

I don't think so. I do not think it's possible.

However, Wizards of the Coast (and thus now maybe Hasbro) owns several patents on game mechanics for collectible card games. I don't think Wizards owns the word "Tap" but they do own the Tap symbol by trademark. And if your game does things that are described in the patents, you may have to pay a licence fee to Wizards.

Ofcourse, a Trade Mark and a Patent are different things.

Wizards of the Coast holds U.S. Patent 5,662,332

on trading card games. The patent, filed in October 1995 and granted in September 1997, covers:

* Games published in the form of trading cards.
* Games in which a player selects a collection of tradeable elements and uses that set to compete with other players.
* Certain aspects of gameplay originally developed for Magic: The Gathering, such as "tapping" a card to indicate it is temporarily depleted.

As a holder of the patent, Wizards of the Coast has requested that all trading card game publishers license the mechanics described in the patent, usually for a royalty fee based on total sales.

Does this mean that anyone that makes a "trading card game" has to pay fees to license from WOC, if so that is insane. Does FFG own any patents on their mechanics or wordings?

There are a bunch of patents on "trading card games"

www.patentstorm.us/search.html

Master of R'lyeh said:

Well, it may be insane, but it's likely true. I don't think there are many patents after that though, since the market of CCG's has been flooded since, and it's hard to get a patent on an entirely new mechanic, because it's hard to prove something is a significant improvement as such as it is entirely new. Also, such a thing would be rather expensive to register a patent for, while it doesn't give you back much in sense of royalties.

Patents aren't trademarks though, and wording usually fall under other copyright laws instead. For example, one could start printing perfect replica's of Black Lotus (the most expensive card in Magic) but this would violate copyright laws. I wouldn't be making a trading card game, but still, I might hear from a WoTC lawyer soon...

Also, I could take the literal wording of a black lotus, and put it into my own card game; Since my mechanics are likely to be different to that of Black Lotus it wouldn't be recognisable enough as being the black lotus:

Discard Dark Flower from your item zone to add 3 influence of any Sphere to your influence pool.

This wouldn't violate copyright, but it may violate the patent on CCGs...

It's a complicated subject matter... Hence lawyers are paid so much money to try to bluff other people they know what they're talking about...

patents are only good for 20 years from the date filed. so they arent hard to work around, given time.

here is any easy way to look at the 3 things. patents say i created something new, im an inventor. say you created a time machine, you have 20 years to sell the thing how you like, after that sony, samsung, whoever can sell their own time machine. so wotc may own the ccg patent but its also nearly expired too......

copyright is basically a work of art in some sense. you didnt invent anything, just made something unique. like a book(not the idea of a book), or a song. these usually have to be direct copys to violate copyright laws. there was that recent case of rowling sueing that person that made an reference book to her harry potter series. she sued for copyright even though he actually never 'copied' any of her work, he just explained what was in her work and all that.

and trademarks are little things that are usually very common but a company has used them in a certain way that its identified with them, a slogan, catch phrase, etc. while everyone can still say or do as normal, its when its copied in sense to mimic the company that owns the trademark where trouble starts. i think trademarks are good for as long as there are linked to something. like when trump started the "you're fired!" thing. every boss cause still use those words, but if you started a tv show and had people elimated and someone used those words to indicate that youre likely to get a letter from a lawyer. so if you created a card game or even rpg that used the term tap, watch out. but if you created a time machine and part of the directions were to tap the green button 3 times youre ok.

obviously there are all kinds of gray areas between the three.

Marius said:

actually if wotc saw the connection they just have to prove to a jury that the connection exists and they would get you for copyright. you copied way too many things here. you violated patent as so as you made a ccg, violated copyright when you copied, yet changed, the wording of the card. did you also include a picture of a black flower on the card? prepare to cough up alot of money hahaha.

PearlJamaholic said:

It could be plagiarism, maybe . There are a lot of other factors though. A Lotus has relevance in context to Magic, but it could do something entirely different in context to the other mechanics. As long as that game doesn't violate the patents of Magic, it would be hard to prove. Or the jury must all learn to play CCG's I don't know much about law, and less of US law, but I think the burden of proof lies with Wizards...

,,,and this is how capitalism actually slows progress, instead of cultivating it.

PearlJamaholic said:

Tee-hee! So, if a patent has a duration, and you invent a time machine the whole concepts of patents gets screwed up. Because linear time doesn't excist anymore. Even if you invent a time machine, you wouldn't be able to patent it, because I would "already " (Yeah, time gets pretty complicated now...) have stolen your idea, and used it to patent it before you got to invent a time machine. Or I can get a time machine, travel to a time where your patent has expired, go back into time to pick up buyers, bring them Back To The Future and sell them my time machine without any legal problems....

Marius said:

that really made me laugh. maybe a time machine example wasnt the best choice......