Zappiel said:
and, just so's y'all know, yer all wrong, cause MY way of playing wh40k is totally absolutely unquestionably correct 100% of the time, so there!!
I think you'll find that my way is the best. To quote from Mel Brooks' "The Producers" - I am the author, you are the audience; I outrank you!
N0-1_H3r3 said:
Zappiel said:
and, just so's y'all know, yer all wrong, cause MY way of playing wh40k is totally absolutely unquestionably correct 100% of the time, so there!!
I think you'll find that my way is the best. To quote from Mel Brooks' "The Producers" - I am the author, you are the audience; I outrank you!
Thank-you for nicely surmising everything which is wrong in the art world right now!
N0-1_H3r3 said:
Zappiel said:
and, just so's y'all know, yer all wrong, cause MY way of playing wh40k is totally absolutely unquestionably correct 100% of the time, so there!!
I think you'll find that my way is the best. To quote from Mel Brooks' "The Producers" - I am the author, you are the audience; I outrank you!
Don't ya dare to talk like that to the people who are payin' yer checks!!
Alex
It's a common problem (I'm not saying 'with no.1'; merely general terms): Artists losing touch with what the people who put food on their table want, and arrogantly assuming that they automatically know better than a fan-base of several hundred thousand.
Customers -not artists- are the final judge of all works of art.
Polaria said:
In short: If you start to kill your own people (Inquisitors most certainly included) on whim you might as well start looking for navigation maps to Eye of Terror and a nice Chaos God to swear your allegiance to, because that is EXACTLY where that path will lead to...
The whole subject in a nutshell: See how & why Deathwatch was created in the first place
Siranui said:
It's a common problem (I'm not saying 'with no.1'; merely general terms): Artists losing touch with what the people who put food on their table want, and arrogantly assuming that they automatically know better than a fan-base of several hundred thousand.
Customers -not artists- are the final judge of all works of art.
The path ahead is not always clear and hindsight is always perfect. People do what they think is right; the customer is the final arbiter. Not to mention that there is sometimes products who are excellent (imho) and who don't sell well. That's life. 
Alex
Siranui said:
It's a common problem (I'm not saying 'with no.1'; merely general terms): Artists losing touch with what the people who put food on their table want, and arrogantly assuming that they automatically know better than a fan-base of several hundred thousand.
Customers -not artists- are the final judge of all works of art.
Incorrect.
The individual is the judge of any work of art. One individuals approval is all that is needed to validate any work of art.
That individual is just as likely to be the artist that created the work as it is a viewer or customer.
The artist has a right to be arrogant in the execution and developement of their work. They had to be arrogant to have created it in the first place. It's your choice to invest in it emotionaly.
ItsUncertainWho said:
Incorrect.
The individual is the judge of any work of art. One individuals approval is all that is needed to validate any work of art.
That individual is just as likely to be the artist that created the work as it is a viewer or customer.
The artist has a right to be arrogant in the execution and developement of their work. They had to be arrogant to have created it in the first place. It's your choice to invest in it emotionaly.
Firstly, you can't simply say 'incorrect', as 'what is art?' is a topic of intense debate, and has been since before even Duchamp. There are many various opinions attached [which is why the topic of discussion is actually banned in my house, alongside any use or discussion of the word 'post-modern'!]. There is definitive 'right' or 'wrong' when it comes to validating art. It is not for anyone to dictate to anyone else what is and is not art, nor that everything or nothing is art. Likewise, it is not 'incorrect' to say 'Ferraris always look better in red'.
...Not that I was speaking of validating it; merely judging the quality of a product. Being a crap product does not make it 'not art'. I'm 'a climber' because I climb things. The fact that I spend most of the time hanging off a rope rather than attached to a rock face is neither here nor there! Matt Ward is clearly 'an author' because he writes things. It's just that he is a crap author who is either incapable of dreaming up a narrative that develops and evolves existing themes into something better, or because he's an arrogant jerk who assumes that his opinion should over-write the work of prior authors, existing axioms, common sense, and the opinion of the majority of people who buy GW products!
Customers judge the art not as a 'yes it is/no it isn't' way (not under my roof, anyway...) but in a 'how good is it' manner, or in comparison to the other works in the field which they have built their expectations upon.
When fans have heavily emotionally and financially invested in an artist or whatever, it's a slap in the face when the artist has an about-turn in philosophy, over-writes, moots and essentially deletes from existence chunks of prior work; then proceeds to shove the new philosophy down the fan-base's neck, cheerfully expecting them to swallow it, and pay for it, to boot!
[This is why I don't own anything that George Lucus has released in the last ten years ]
Siranui said:
It's a common problem (I'm not saying 'with no.1'; merely general terms): Artists losing touch with what the people who put food on their table want, and arrogantly assuming that they automatically know better than a fan-base of several hundred thousand.
Did I lose some people? The was intended to indicate a joke, just in case quoting from a musical comedy was not sufficiently overt.
Siranui said:
[This is why I don't own anything that George Lucus has released in the last ten years ]
George Lucas has released something in the last 10 years?
I generally don't watch modern sequels (or prequels) of timeless classics. Nor modern remakes. (watched the last Indy though and thought it was okayish.) So: "No, he did not release anything."
Alex
N0-1_H3r3 said:
Did I lose some people? The was intended to indicate a joke, just in case quoting from a musical comedy was not sufficiently overt.
No, I got it, thanks. I'm just generally discussing stuff and ranting about a personal bugbear, without reference to yourself (if your artistic ego can handle such a concept ).
He's re-released DVD editions. Each one more heretical than the last.
And... he produced an Indy film. The one with the fridge. Southpark treated it with the respect it deserved.
And... were the 'first' three films really so long ago? Pass me my zimmerframe.
ak-73 said:
I generally don't watch modern sequels (or prequels) of timeless classics. Nor modern remakes. (watched the last Indy though and thought it was okayish.) So: "No, he did not release anything."
Alex
Ugh, I thought I was watching a Uwe Boll movie.
Siranui said:
Matt Ward is clearly 'an author' because he writes things. It's just that he is a crap author who is either incapable of dreaming up a narrative that develops and evolves existing themes into something better, or because he's an arrogant jerk who assumes that his opinion should over-write the work of prior authors, existing axioms, common sense, and the opinion of the majority of people who buy GW products!
Yeah, really! Why doesn't somebody stop him?
Alpha Chaos 13 said:
Siranui said:
Matt Ward is clearly 'an author' because he writes things. It's just that he is a crap author who is either incapable of dreaming up a narrative that develops and evolves existing themes into something better, or because he's an arrogant jerk who assumes that his opinion should over-write the work of prior authors, existing axioms, common sense, and the opinion of the majority of people who buy GW products!
Yeah, really! Why doesn't somebody stop him?
Because for every random veteran 40k grognard who complains about his Mary Sueish romping through the warp while fist bumping Necrons stories, there are at least two 13 year old boys who buy the codex and go... "Whoa... he is soooo cool! Where is his fig??".
Sanguinary Priest said:
Alpha Chaos 13 said:
Siranui said:
Matt Ward is clearly 'an author' because he writes things. It's just that he is a crap author who is either incapable of dreaming up a narrative that develops and evolves existing themes into something better, or because he's an arrogant jerk who assumes that his opinion should over-write the work of prior authors, existing axioms, common sense, and the opinion of the majority of people who buy GW products!
Yeah, really! Why doesn't somebody stop him?
Because for every random veteran 40k grognard who complains about his Mary Sueish romping through the warp while fist bumping Necrons stories, there are at least two 13 year old boys who buy the codex and go... "Whoa... he is soooo cool! Where is his fig??".
****. Your logic in unassailable. 
Can't bash the guy because his crunch is solid. Making nearly all marines revering Girlyman more than their own primarch was silly though. I don't even think the Crimson Fists, who readily adopted the codex, do.
Fluff-wise there's a couple of questionable things but that is easily enough ignored in my 40K setting. My Crimson Fists like Guillaume and think very highly of him but first comes the Emperor, then Dorn. Then Robert G, maybe.
Alex
I maybe feel differently because he's trashed my favourite part of the 40k universe and turned it into a 13 year old's sadest, lamest fantasy.
Siranui said:
I maybe feel differently because he's trashed my favourite part of the 40k universe and turned it into a 13 year old's sadest, lamest fantasy.
What part was that, if you don't mind my asking? My issue is that there's no "power creep" with him, it's more like "power assault". Librarian dreadnaughts (ref. Blood Angels Codex) who can fly? Really? I would be okay with the librarian dread because it does make sense that a librarian hero could wind up as one. But I don't think that Wings of Sanguinius should affect them, or bikes for that matter. I also think the dreadnaught-sized force axe is just stupid. From my point of view, he has a wonderful imagination & has embraced the old-school GW "let's do it 'cause it's cool" attitude. I respect that. My issue is that the stuff he writes seems to have no controlling balance. I know people with bi-polar disorder who have more restraint than he seems to, based on his writing. And the Grey Knights... they are an elite force of demon hunting speciallists, so they should be good at it. But that codex is just ridiculous. I'm slowwly putting together a demon army, but I don't think that I would ever field them against a grey knight army. I don't mind playing a "no win" scenario - they can be quite entertaining. But an army whose special rules can negate another's is just bad thinking on GW's part. Personally, I would not enjoy playing if the special abilities of my troops were negated in such a way. It's like building an army & saying ", This is an Anti-Imperial Guard Army. When facing Guard, they deploy a special jammer that negates the weapons on all enemy tanks. Additionally, if the Guard infantry outnumber the Anti-Guard, remove basic troopers until the armies are of equal size. Oh, and the Anti-Guard can use plenty of heavy bolters" Doesn't sound like much fun for the Guard player when the things that make their army effective are stripped away, does it?
LOL, I suspect AluminumWolf is actually Matt Ward in disguise. The whole ROFL-stomping through the warp and carving his name in daemon primarch hearts sounds "cool" and powerful enough to be a starting 1st level character in his RPG campaign. At least inquisitors can't push Draigo around!
Alpha Chaos 13 said:
What part was that, if you don't mind my asking?
My all-time favourite marine Chapter was the old-school Grey Knights.
Nowadays that's akin to admitting a deep-seated love of homosexual donkey necrophilia.
Thanks, Matt.
Man, you know you've got problems when your fetishes are THAT specific.
Did I mention that it needed to be wearing SCUBA gear, with Enya being played in the background?
Anyone that can be aroused to the sounds of Enya is some form of masochist.
I think it adds a little romantic mood to the scene...