I'm usually quite entertained by warhammer 40k weaponry despite the fact that the original designers seem to know nothing about weapons.

However, the RPG in dark heresy, it's unworkable in my opinion, though some people might disagree with me. First of all, it weighs 15 kg, you'd need to have porters along to use it. Secondly, it seems just to use normal grenades, or something very similiar. I'd want to have it something more powerful, and probably heavier, i.e. heavier ammo. Then somehow they have the idea that RGPs are accurate, sure, it's the future, what do I know, I've never used one. The range isn't impressive, but it might be about right, yet again I don't know.

Perhaps a updated rocket propelled grenade is a unbalanced weapon for dark heresy?

And in my ignorance, how do hand thrown krak grenades work exactly? Are all revolvers in 40k gas sealed, since you can appearantly suppress them? Perhaps this is silly in a world of plasma guns and power swords and so on!

Is the word magazine or mag used anywhere in the books? As opposed to clip.

Well, this is all silly nitpicking really.

So, basing the dark heresy RPG on the RPG-7. I'd get this:

Weight: about 6.3 to 7 kg (which is 15lb)

Make the ammo weigh about 2.5 to 3 kg each. Increase damage somewhat.
Making the weapon *inaccurate* doesn't seem to be way to go. I'm not sure how to reflect that.

I'm just wondering if someone had given this any thought, I'm pretty far from expert on weaponry myself.

Krak grenades implode. If you hit someone with them, there's a big KRAK and they get smushed up inside out. I'd describe it as a sudden vacuum ripping things to shreds, bending metal, shattering bone, etc.

Magazine isn't used in the book. I don't know why "clip" is used, except it is much shorter for statistic tables.

I should think that normal quality revolvers would have to be gas sealed because they can have silencers (although, strangely enough, I think shotguns are omitted from the silencer list). I'd say that, based on this, poor quality revolvers cannot have silencers affixed. Or you could house rule that only good and best quality revolvers are gas sealed and that poor and common quality revolvers cannot be silenced.

Current RPGs are not very accurate, and I doubt they'd be much better in 40k because the Imperial Guard has dedicated rocket launchers and doesn't need grenade launchers (they don't like to go half way - why use a grenade when you've got a rocket?). The slightest bit of wind can make rocket propelled grenades veer wide off-target, and they can bounce off water if fired at the wrong angle (and sometimes even the ground).

So, while the Imperial Guard use rocket/missile launchers, I guess PDF and insurgents might use RPGs - which makes them more base technology. So, to be honest, the idea of an RPG so large and bulky that it needs to be dragged around (15kg isn't that heavy - it's along the lines of a small microwave, but it becomes very heavy if you're lugging it around all day ) if there's no one to help you transport it.

To be honest, before Dark Heresy I had never heard of RPGs in 40k. You could have rocket launchers or grenade launchers, and nothing in between. Perhaps a lighter, single-shot RPG would have been better? The kind you throw away after using as a light anti-tank weapon.

I hope that helps.

PS: Don't forget that Space Marines have fully-automatic rocket launcher pistols as their side arms!

Grand Vizier said:

A bazooka weighs approximately 7 kg. Add sophisitcated targeting instrumentation and 40k robustness (some would say "bulk") and 15 kg isn't that far off. Also, the Imperial Guard will typically deploy Missile Launcher teams of two men; a gunner and a loader. So they do have a "porter".

The accuracy factor can easily be attributed to the targeting instrumentation which again adds to the weapon's weight.

The ammunition weight and damage is a gross simplification. I guess it saves space not having to list the damage value for different sizes of the same grenade.

A thrown krak grenade should have no effect. While DH describes the krak grenade as a directed charge, older sources suggest an implosion effect. This is popular since it explains how a krak grenade can destroy a tank without having an area effect: Agains troops the implosion merely sucks in a volume of air, but against a vehicle the implosion can warp the chassis and disrupt sensitive machinery, essentially causing damage far beyond the nominal volume of effect.

The silencer upgrade merely allows you to apply a special effect on the selected weapon. This may indeed include applying a gas seal or whatever is necessary to achieve the desired effect. Flex your imagination and come up with a suitable explanation. This is a role playing game, not a computer game: all your options haven't been spelled out in advance.

-K

In my game I've changed the catagories a bit concerning this weapon (RPG Launcher), I've made it a Basic weapon because history has shown us every smuck can shoulder and fire this weapon, also I've lowered the weight to 6 KG excluding the grenade.

Just look at the Panzerfaust and RPG-7, they are/were even used by elderly and children, only the rock launcher (IH) should be considered heavy.

Thanks! These are awesome answers to my late night ponderings, much more than I expected!

These are all usable options, and ofcourse, the emperium is a mixture of all sorts of different versions of weapons. One could even use all these options suggested, for different worlds.

My GM generally follows the letter of the rules regrading weapons, and he has often refused to bring along the infamous german language weapon book for our Call of Cthulhu game! But I might end up running Dark heresy myself in the end so who knows what will turn up there.

Santiago said:

Of course they can, at -20% to they BS. Any one of you actualy fired RPG 7? I did, and I'm telling you it is not so easy. Of course pulling the trigger is easy, but actually hitting something and not incinerating your friend with rare fume exhaust is another thing (my friend almost did, when he was firing for the first time). So imho RPG should be heavy weapon.
Weight is another thing, but look at the other weapons, they all are too heavy

Hakken said:

He never said it was easy, but trained people can fire it from standing. Heavy weapons needs to be braced so I think I might go with Santiago on this.

Weight wise they are all too heavy but they are supposed to be used by two people (or one marine). That doesn't strike me as nescesarily the case with the RPG so I might knock that down too.

Face Eater said:

Exactly, I've seen footage of children firing those buggers standing... Basic is good enough....Missile launchers on the other hand...

I'd like to see rifle grenades fired from las weaponry as an option. IRL, special rounds and bullet traps ignite the rocket, but a rocket ignited by a las round should be pretty easy to envision.

I would think that would mess with the inner workings of a las weapon, don't see it as a problem on SP weapons though, and of course a bolter is a rocket launcher of sorts.

Hakken said:

I whole-heartedly agree with this. The "schmucks" are not trained soldiers. They don't hit things every time they pull the trigger. The only reason they're dangerous is because they have fully-automatic weapons (in-game this would be -20% untrained, +20% full-auto).

Also, a weapon that weights 14kg and doesn't count as Heavy is a bit odd don't you think? Even a 7kg weapon not counting as Heavy is odd since that is about the weight of a modern-day support weapon (e.g. L86A1 LSW). You can brace a weapon standing up, you just have to take the half action to do so beforehand and it means you only have a very limited fire-corridor. Unless you have Bulging Biceps or Auto-Stabalised.

I would think that would mess with the inner workings of a las weapon

It wouldn't do anything with the inner workings of the las weapon. A rifle grenade attaches to the end of the barrel and is triggered by firing the weapon. Having a las/energy discharge trigger the rifle grenade's propellant would seem easier than our RL versions that have to use special bullets to do the job.

I see las weapon barrels as used for focusing the beam of energy and the backwash from rocket propellant would damage it IMO.

Grand Vizier said:

WH40K, where the IG fails because of being fatigued having to carry around twice their own body weight in equipment

I think the easiest way to come to terms with it is just to either halve the weapon weights in most cases or imagine them in pounds which is much the same thing give or take a couple.

Nobody is allowed to use 'clip' when I run unless its a hair clip or they're a savage running around with some antique 40K version of a Garand...

MKX said:

It may be stupid question, but (as You can surely see) I’m not native speaker. What is the deal with “clip” word?

Magazine and clip are both shorthened versions, they were originally referred to as magazine clips. No clue why people have issues with the word clip though.

Well the difference between a "mag" and a "clip" is obvious:

The left one is a so-called Stripper Clip, the other one is a magazine...

Hollywood confused us because they though "Clip" sounded cooler than "Mag".

Hakken said:

It may be stupid question, but (as You can surely see) I’m not native speaker. What is the deal with “clip” word?

As Santiago's pictures show, the clip is essentially an ammunition component where you open the breech of the weapon, force the rounds down into weapons internal magazine which is integral to its firing mechanism. Once all rounds have been cycled the clip holding the ammunition is either mechanically ejected or removed manually by the operator and a new one forced down into it.

The clip, is part of the ammo, it isnt integral to the weapon.

Some older weapons with a 'magazine' didn't have the clip holding the ammo together and where individually loaded into it by the operator, like your old lever action 'cowboy' guns and shotguns that have the ammunition running parallel to the barrel, they dont have a "clip size", they have a magazine. The purpose of the clip was simply to remove that one at a time feeding of ammunition into the magazine compartment through an opening on the weapon and you could instead, load in a half dozen at a time.

"Box Magazines" like the one next to Santiago's picture of the 'clip' are a self-contained unit, mechanically they serve the same purpose as a magazine which is internally located in the weapon- feeding ammunition into the firing mechanism. But they contain springs to move the ammunition up into the firing mechanism as part of their construction, they also allow the rounds as we can see in that picture to be staggered side by side and fit more into fairly much the same size area.

More Ammo = good, especially with the high rates of fire modern weapons

There are other versions magazine which hold ammunition independant of the weapon that come in all sorts of configurations, but mechanically they all sort of serve and use the same kind of principles.

Finally, there are belt fed/linked round weapons which have neither an internal magazine or a conventional magazine holding rounds that is inserted into them.

They do not have "clip"

They have a belt which is fed into the firing mechanism and cycled through it, they may have a 'magazine' in so much that there is a big box sitting next to them or mounted on the weapon holding the ammunition.

And that is pretty much why "Clips are Wrong" and a product of too many movies.

Thank you, I understand differences, and mechanisms. In my own language there is no such distinctions so I was a little bit confused