Here you are, guys. Enjoy!

awesome, I've been looking to try out a holy version of a greyjoy UO after listening to 2champs so now I have a great base to start from!

many thanks!

I think most decks can win a melee with the right table play. In your opinion, what makes this one really special?

I find this deck is very weak. Sorry, but "event" are too weak. Where is "For the Example"?

You win with this? Congratulation. Round 4-5?

Katagena said:

it is a very strong build and he played it well. there were 3 rounds of preliminary and a cut to final table based on points. ~it should also be noted that he should have lost, but Dobbler bailed his ass out of the fire.

Make An Example would likely be a nice boon to the deck, I'll admit, but I find myself cutting my event slots down more and more in the decks that I build lately. Partly because of setup, partly because they just don't do anything past that initial play. Yes, the additional power grabbing potential of Make An Example would fit nicely in this deck thanks to the non-kneeling/mass attack potential of holy characters with the Power of Faith plots and it was indeed something that I thought about. In the end I thought that the character threshold necessary to usefully trigger the event was much lower with Superior Claim so I went that route with the deck. In later builds, I'll likely attempt it with both.

Now, this is likely me over reacting do to a slight turn of phrase and tone by a non-native speaker, but I find myself taken aback. After reading for a week now how European players feel like they lack respect from us, I'm a bit appalled at the apparent lack of respect toward a deck that I feel proved itself in winning the event it was played in. I think there are ways to say that you disagree with the card choice or that you feel there are even stronger builds available without belittling my deck and by extension myself. Still, I admit, it's likely just an unfortunately miscommunication through text and I'm a bit high strung from working on charity auction contacts tonight. But I do think it's worth bearing in mind for all of us from both sides of the pond. There've been a lot of high tensions running around for the last several weeks. We all should be thoughtful before we post.

As for what makes this build special, I'd chalk it up about half and half to resilience and force. A first turn At the Gates for Maester Wendamyr starts you out by taking a significant chunk of military claim away. The holy characters like Aeron Damphair and Euron Greyjoy (replacement effect) serve to make sure that I always have holy characters around. Add in the spot saves from Iron Mines and you've got a solid backup plan. If one of the 3 STR holy characters does get eliminated, you have Many Powers Long Asleep available. Honestly, I just had so few characters leaving the table compared to most opponents that it creates a card advantage almost as effective as a mid-range draw engine. Force, on the other hand, refers to the hammer blow that can be brought on by non-kneeling characters. I've played a good bit of Brotherhood or Uber Viper decks. One of their key strengths is a character that does not kneel to attack. Now, granted, most of the holy characters (barring Driftwood Crown or Support of Harlaw shennanigans) don't have stealth or renown, but what they lack in that department is easily made up for in the ability to pretty consistently have 3 non-kneeling attackers. Breaking the threat up into those additional bodies gives your oppononts that much more difficulty in deciding who to deal with rather than knocking out a single Beric or the like.

Ok so previously, i'm sur Kata don't want to attack your deck, he just don't understand how you can win, probably die to a different Meta.

That's why he wants more information, because he can't see how it work, cause he don't have the smae envirronment on his table. He is on Nantes, and Nantes see lot of melee decks that win on turn 2 (3max). But in fact melee environment his really fast one here. Every deck win turn 3 with some turn 2,So you don't have to lost any single gold...

Another thing that hurts us, was why no card to deal with other?? Because here, if you have nothing to deal, you will see all the table return against yo by good tabletalker rignt in the first round....

So, i trust you it's a good deck, and i really i bow you for the victory, but french people are just impressed by the difference beetween different meta.

Oh and there is 6 Drowned prohet on the list

Kennon said:

I have to admit non-native speakers tend to come off as REALLY aggressive sometimes. For some funky reason, I always think that this is due to watching american action movies, which tend to concentrate on such vocabulary. Or maybe it's just one of those things that happen with language barriers. Anyways, I'm 97% sure no disrespect was meant.

Kennon said:

Actually I would pretty much agree with these decisions. I tend to see Make An Example as one of those "Good Day" cards, which only works well when you're doing well to begin with, and I had similar misgivings about playing many events for the Stahleck Melee last year.

Kennon said:

Been trying different kinds of Holy builds out for GJ, but I somehow never got the mix 'just perfect'. Always some odd clunkyness, or just slow to get going. However, this deck really seems to work around those problems, while spreading the threat around (very important if you ask me) and keeping the resilience. Good work, and congratulations on your win.

Off Topic 1: Dude, you didn't know you guys had european listeners? You can count two more from Finland...

Regarding Nantes: How come your meta is so fast around there? Not much character control? (milk, fishing net, Carrion + Old Nan, Direct Kill from Stark etc.) I could easily see that if everybody in a Meta concentrated on pure speed, then it would not be feasible for any one player to start running any control elements, as those would only slow his/her deck down, without being able to slow down all three opponents... Melee can be a tricky thing sometimes.

WWDrakey said:

And probably at least two from Germany; me, and I'm pretty sure Ratatoskr also listens to your podcast.

diana olympos said:

I will say the speed issue is definitely a metagame situation. When I was traveling around the US, you would definitely see a wide variety of player strategies in melee. In some groups, no one makes a run before turn 4, and in others, the games rarely run past 2 turns. It's a classic control vs. rush argument played out in a different venue. Control players are often confounded playing against 3 rush, and a rush player gets befuzzled against 3 control players Milk'ing all his renown.

Heck, last year at GenCon, I played my joust deck (which I didn't actually joust with) in the melee and won my first 3 tables... precisely because there was at least one other "control" player to slow down anyone rushing (1 Martell & 2 Winter, IIRC)... in my final game, I faced 2 Greyjoy and one Bara deck, and I wasn't in it at all. My only advantage was a Viper who wasn't going to do from 3 straight rounds of Power of Blood... but I didn't have the initiative or total STR high enough to get anywhere.

Diana, I don't know if you're using a translation, but my direct English version shows 3 Drowned Prophet & 3 Drowned Disciple.

Greetings for your win!

I think Hatagena mean no disrespect but we have a problem with your deck. We don't see how it can win. The meta is so different here. No one play control except if you can control all 3 players and stand for 3 players allied against you.

One catch phrase here is : "You always crush the Bara players even when he seemed dead, then you do the same thing to the SOW stark, and then the Dothraki wins!"

Most of Melee decks around here can win in a single round. I have made a deck who win round 2 with just winning Dominance!

You have no deal plot in your plot deck. Spanish do the same thing. And here we found this totally weird. You can make an one round alliance with a player just with a building or summonig season or Counting favors. it's one deal then it is easier to make some others deals with the same players. And if a "deal-break" happens. The others players distrust you, and you have 3 players against you.

Finally, it seems that a french player in an american melee will seems too generous with the others. And an american players will feel very, very, lonely...

Saturnine said:

Uh oh, now you got me. I have, in fact, not been listening yet. Three of my metamates do, though. Incidentally, the same three that finished ahead of me in League play. Hmmm....

Oh, and thanks for the report. Nice read, though I can't offer any comment, because I really don't know the first thing about Melee.

Ratatoskr said:

Huh, I thought I saw you mention in another post that you listened to it as well, but I guess I confused you with somebody else.

Oh yep sorry for drowned, it was really not the good hour to read a decklist....

Fieras said:

completely disagree

Congratulations on your victory. I played Greyjoy/Winter in Melee at GenCon last year and was thoroughly trounced, so it's nice to see it bring in a nice victory.

So I commented on the news item before I saw this thread, so my apologies for the virtual double post.

Did you go with Retaliation instead of Rise of the Kraken because of the gold and because choosing another player to go first in Melee isn't as troublesome as in Joust?

I'll post more thoughts on the deck and strategy today, but at the moment I'm in such a joyous, joyous mood and have to take care of some things related to the charity auction.

Katagena, please accept an apology from me. I was likely a little overly touchy.

No soucy.

I accept. It's difficult for me to write in English. Next time, I post with smilies

How many people at this tournament?

I've just win a Melee tournament last night in my town. 11 players only. But it was just a little local tournament. Every month, we organize one Melee tournament in a Bar. And your Regional? What's the name of your regional too?

Katagena said:

15 for the melee. the name was 'lcg days'.

The Nick-ler said:

And that's why melee will always be looked at with a questioning eye.

clu said:

~Yeah, this thread has definitely gone on long enough without derailment. So let's start another Melee vs. Joust debate!

<ungh> please god no. ^__^

clu said:

For those wondering, I think Greg really did have legit gameplay reasons for doing so. In a nutshell, Nickl-er used a Lannisport Rookery to flip into Valar D. after I completed my challenges. I had Power of Faith revealed, so none of my characters had knelt so I was going to be pretty screwed if things stayed as they were. When Greg was challenging, I asked him to attack me so that I could defend with Euron, lose the challenge, kill someone for claim, and save Euron with Wendaymr for deadly, thus saving at least two characters from Valar D. Now, if you've listened to the podcast or were there, you know that Greg was running a trait manipulation deck with Horn of Dragons. I had already discarded one Horn with Scurvy Cutthroat, but what I didn't realize was that Greg had two more copies in his hand by this point. Greg bailed me out in regards to Valar D. so that he would have Euron around the next turn as far and away the best target to take control of with Horn of Dragons.

The Nick-ler said:

sarcasm people... sarcasm. i am fully aware of why dobbler did what he did. doesn't mean i cannot be sore about it ^__^

Lol, I saw your sarcasm mark, but I also knew that you were there. For those that weren't at the table with us, I thought I would clarify.