I am of course talking about Hoax.

I've just bought all of the new character packs online, Hoax, Hoss, Asteros and Oksana, and I am really looking forward to trying them all out, but the suspence is killing me, so I was hoping someone could unveil how Hoax work with her 4 miniatures and invisibility field (or whatever the equipment is), as in, what are the game mechanics?

Thanks

I'm witing for Hoss and Hoax too!

sejestephan said:

Noones going to tell?

I was hopeing someone else would answer, so I could rest my wrists more, but oh well, here the gist.

Hoax may use an action to turn invisiable, remove her "visiable" figure and replace it with two or three (depending on equipment pack) "invisiable" figures.

The invisiable Hoaxs may move independently but only one may preform an action.

While invisiable she can not be targeted by normal attacks, but she can be targeted by some mental attacks.

These things will turn her visiable again:

Use an action to turn visiable

She gets bull rushed

she is wounded, like by a grenade

She walks through smoke

She fires a gun

I think that's all of them.

When you choose to become visiable you choose which figure is the "real" Hoax.

That shold be most of what you need to know.

Thanks a lot, and wow, she seems like a killer, litteraly being able to be at 3 different places at once is huge!

Very excited about this, looks like ol' Barry and Tala won't see a lot of play anymore

Miah999 said:

What are "some mental attacks"?

We just played Hoax for the first time today. It wasn't clear what works against her. The card says that she cannot be targeted by enemies.

Do Duels have a target or just an Opponent?

Ozo's Doom, Hermann's Patmos Amulet/Sha-Na-Ra and Hoss' Aethon don't need to see the enemy (they work out-of-path and into the smoke too), so they can target Hoax also when she's invisible.

I think so, because in this way there's a sense.

Sorry Carlos but you are quite wrong on that one

Hoax's ability clearly states that she can NOT be targeted by enemy characters, making her pretty much immune to most mental attacks the reich can throw at her- in fact, from the top of my head- the only two things i can think of that Reich has that can affect her are Hermans Hermetica occulta- as it affects not targets but the entire path he is on, and Hoss' Chronometer as it clearly doesnt require a "target"or "targeting"in the ability wording.

Everything else you can throw at her is pretty much a no go; as it requires a target.

Hoex is by far one of the most interesting and powerful heroes out there, especially if you are playing the scenarios or the objective modes as she can pretty much walty around the board cloaked and finish her objectives without un-stealthing.

In my experience, the most effective way of dealing with her is having Herman with hermetica occulta and the Eye blocking her way cause if she decides to move through his path- she will most likely lose the mental duel and receive 1 automatic wound which will de-cloak her- and then the reich can zerg her

Sorry Fizzletop, but I think you may be wrong this time.

A recent FFG ruling cleary states that Hoss CAN target Hoax with a mental duel, which means all mental attacks/duel should be able to target Hoax. Note it is inaccurate to say that the Chronograph does not require a target, so logic follows if she can be targeted by one mental item she can be targeted by others. See below.

Also a second recent ruling from FFG stated that Mental weapons like Doom that do not require LOS can even be used in smoke without penality. See below.

So I think that the Reich's Mental weapons/powers are Hoax's weakness.

For the Hoss ruling.

From the Original Post: www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp

"Rule Question:

In my last game, a complex situation came up: Hoss Harbinger was standing in a circle on the same path with Heizinger. Heizinger had the Hermetica Occulta. Hoax was invisible with three invisible figures on the board. One of these figures was standing on a circle with a Mental bonus symbol. Hoss tried to swap places with Hoax, raising these questions...

1) Hoax cannot be "targeted" when she is invisible, but Hoss's Chronograph of Jan Ruze does not require a "target" to swap places with another character. Can he use the Chronograph to swap places with an invisible Hoax? (After all, he usually can't see the figures he swaps with anyway.) If so, and Hoss wins the mental duel, who decides which invisible Hoax figure he swaps with? Does she stay invisible?

Thanks, Don Frew

Andrew Meredith from Fantasy Flight provided these answers…

<< Nice set of questions Don,
Here's some answers:

1) When Hoss uses the Chronograph of Jan Ruze, you should declare which figure you will be replacing (which means you need to define which Hoax figure you are replacing) and then engage in the Mental Duel with Hoax.

Thanks for the questions.
Andrew >>"

For the Doom, etc ruling.

From the original Post: www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp

LETE asked

"Do the Smoke Greanade LOS restrictions also apply to the Range of certain items/abilities (like the Patmos Fragment's Range)?"

FFG Answered.

"Smoke Grenades do not effects attacks that do not require line of Sight. So the Patmos Amulet, or attacks with Doom are unaffected by Smoke."

So by logical extension of all this info if Hoss can target her and if smoke does not blind Mental Attack/Duels then how can Hoax's invisability, I say it cannot protect her from these types of attacks. But you can still ask FFG if you wnat an official ruling. Just ask If Hoax is can be targeted by attacks that do not require LOS.

Miah999 said:

I think you are mistaking "logic" for actual rules wording here Miah. The reason Hoss can use his Chronograph on Hoax is it is one of the very few items/abilities that very explicitly replaces the word "target" or " to target" with just "another character". And not because it is a mental attack (in fact it is not described as an attack at all). Doesnt seem much at first glance, but as someone who played various CCGs for years i have learened these kind of wording subtleties make up for a world of difference.

But i guess an official ruling on this matter would be the best.

Yes true, but your still ignoring the second ruling about items that do not require LOS to target. I seems to me if you don't need to see your target, why would it matter if she's invisable.

I agree to Miah: this way is simple, coherent, intuitive.

Miah999 said:

Because you cant TARGET something that really isnt there. And who knows where Hoax really is, LoS or no LoS

But i sent the question in for official ruling and we will find out soon enough

What I find weird about Hoax, which I love, is that even though the enemy can't see her, the PLAYER is seeing her so as soon as he can he could just throw a grenade at nothing and BAM! Hoax reappears...

There should be a way to play Hoax without the other player physically knowing on the board where the 3 invisible Hoaxs are...like Battleship.

Hoax is cool and fun but having her minis physically on the board just let the other player kow where she is and could bull rush or throw a grenade at air and here's Hoax...

See that's part of my point if you can throw a grenade or bull rush an invisable Hoax, you should be able to use you psychic powers to target her mind and not her body, you can't see her mind to start with.

Mental powers allow to locate a target without need to see him, so I think out of path or invisible it's the same situation.

Really it's strange that a "virtual random" grenade always hits Hoax.

My gut reaction when we played was that Metal Duels should work, but then I reread the text that enemy characters could not target Hoax. Since I've also played many C/LCGs, I ruled that only indirect damage (grenades) could get her. I'm glad someone posted this to FFG.

My gut goes with Mental working. I hope FFG agrees. Also think of the grenade thing is that you sense something (footsteps, etc.) and figure that witch has to be around and toss a grenade hoping to take care of her.

I've also sent the question to FFG, so we can just wait.

Has anyone received a response from FFG yet?

Nothing, it's strange: normally they're very fast to answer... and I wrote twice.

Can't wait to hear the ruling. I love playing as the union, but my brother always dominates with the Riech, no matter what game mode is played, so I was hoping Hoax may be able to even things out a bit.

I think it's time we resubmit this question to FFG, we haven't had an answer since they we're asked on June 17th.

Yes, I think that too. I re-try to write them.

Ok, done.

Anything new now?

How do you work out the visibility thing? I mean there are two invisible figures on the board which can not be targeted. Another character tries to bull rush one figure. What happens next? I assume that the player controlling Hoax can decide whether the invisible figure was the actual Hoax meaning that she becomes visible again or that the player decides the invisible figure wasn't her and actually removing the figure from the board leaving one still invisible figure of Hoax on the board. As long as Hoax does not become visible she stays that way. However if she wants to get more invisible figures again, so the opponent needs to guess again then she needs to spend one action for visibility and one more for invisibility again.

The same procedure applies to a grenade thrown at one invisible figure. At least this is the way I read the rules.

Regarding mental? I don't think that mental duels can target her, as they still need a target.

On the other side Hoss Chronosphere may swap the place with one invisible figure but then I would rule again, that the player decides wheter it was Hoax or not and if not removing the figure Hoss changed places with.

Sorry dieased, I think you are wrong. If a character successfully Bull Rushes one of the invisible Hoax figures, the player controlling Hoax can't decide whether this figure is the actual Hoax or not. Instead, the figure that was Bull Rushed has to be replaced with the visible Hoax figure and all other invisible figures are removed from the board. The same applies if Hoax suffers a wound after a grenade was thrown at one of the invisible figures. The figure that was the "target" of the grenade has to be replaced with the real Hoax, other invisible figures have to be removed from the board.

The player controlling Hoax may only choose which invisible figure becomes the actual Hoax if Hoax spends an action to become visible or several invisible figures are forced to become visible at the same time (both are affected by smoke or a grenade, for example).