One of my pc's recently became pregnant, through some rather awkward rp. What the tech priest in the group wants to do is remove the fertilized egg, and basically grow it in a test tube. I'm probably going to say yes assuming he can get the proper equipment and such, but I am inclined to have some ordo hereticus "purists" try and nail him for it. What I want to know is, do you think that growing a baby in a test tube would be considered heretical in the 40k universe? I think it would, but I am still new to the setting, so I would like somebody else's opinions.

Well now that is an interesting question... what are you actually planning to do with the fetus? Genetic Manipulation?

I don't think so. Although I figure the presence of it would still arouse suspicion...

Many within the Mechanicus use "vat-grown" humans for servitors, etc. That must involve some sort of exterior incubator or "maturation chamber". In truth, I wouldn't say this is something that many people in the Imperium would be burning you for.

I would rather deem it to be heretical unless the fetus is later used as "raw material" for the servitors mentioned by Mnesminache.

But I do not have any examples for the "pro" or "con", just my gut-feelings about 40K, the Ecclesiarchy and how absurds things are in comparison to each other.

DastardlyIceHole said:

The obligatory answer would be again "it depends".

If a Magos or other high ranking Tech-Priest decides to grow a fertilized egg in a test tube (as long as the technology involved is considered more or less AM-sanctioned), he is most probably free to do so and the Ordo Hereticus would most probably not be interested anyway. If he starts weird experiments that could be considered heretical as such (e.g. genetic tampering) or if is a mutant or xeno baby, the Inquisition or the Adeptus Mechanicus itself could take an interest. The same is true, if the technology used for the test tube and for growing up the embryo is somehow heretekal, considered tinkering or is even somehow based on xeno-tech, let alone is warp-powered...

Ad-Mech sanctioned equipment and a human baby = You can do what ever you want. (nearly). As to "when does it become heretical?" I will draw the attention to Cherubs... you know the evil-looking fat baby servitors with anti-grav engines and swan wings. Sick, disgusting but not heresy.

Unless he starts breeding obvious mutants or psykers no-one would care, apart from the mother perhaps.

I seem to recall this being "normal" procedure for tech-priests on Forge Worlds. It is much more efficient than having a otherwise productive woman "suffering" reduced efficiency for a long period of time, after all.

The Into the Storm supplement for Rogue Trader has an origin alternative that reads "Unnatural Origins". One of the options reads:

False-Man
Your life is not your own. It is the product of an arcane
science only barely understood by those that wield it, who
seek to emulate the Emperor’s mastery of genetics. Your form
and your nature are manufactured, the result of tampering by
those who seek to make men more able to perform certain
tasks. You are a rarity in the Imperium and beyond it, a human
being wrought by artificial means, and whether you embrace
the purpose of your creation or deny it, the fact that you may
not be entirely human is still weighs heavily upon you. One
thing you do know is that you are still human in part—their
science cannot create new life, it can only change that which
already exists. However small a comfort that may be, even if it
provides only solace through hatred, it is something.

I'd agree with posters above; if the Mechanicus is doing it, it's legit. Otherwise it's prolly heresy.

What I find extremely interesting is: A) How the mother discovered it so quickly? And B) How can she be so trusting to a half-machine guy who half of the time you don't understand what the hell is he saying, and of the other half you wish you didn't understand it most of, not to mention the "eeagerness to help" showed to remove the child from inside the mother...

Frankly, unless the Inquisitor has a very, very compelling reason to keep her on duty (or is a complete bastard), I think the character would be taking some off-duty time...

Considering all the answers, I agree that the best answer is probably:

• Ask the Ecclesiarchy: "Heresy!"
• Ask the Mechanicus: "We do it all the time."

It sounds a lot like a grey zone, and the specifics depend much on the world such procedures are performed on as they do on any official or semi-official backing and/or resistance by the respective factions.

Another thing that comes to mind when thinking about this topic are the Afriel strain clone troopers . Less easy to interpret is the mention of " Vitae Wombs " in the fluff about the IG recruitment numbers from Krieg, though. Just thought this could be of relevance to the discussion.

As Argus said, however, there also seem to be a lot of alternatives that seem less "exotic". Have the group take a year of downtime and transfer the child to the Schola Progenium. Or simply do an abortion (might again be a tricky subject depending on who you ask - or who the father was). Things like these are the reason for why some IG Regiments employ sterilization drugs.

Lynata said:

Why? What do you think how they got all their Cherubim?

Luthor Harkon said:

Why? What do you think how they got all their Cherubim?

I always assumed those would be stillborn, or just dead children who succumbed to the hostile state of the universe. Famine, disease, ecological hazards. Y'know, grimdark.

Just like grown people get turned into fully-fledged servitors. Why would you breed new life when you already have enough bodies either way?

Of course, that's just my interpretation.

Lynata said:

Lets be fair. That's what they would say about almost anything that the Ad-Mech does if The Emperor hadn't given them an exception.

His main motives are just to grow the baby separately so that the female character can continue to be of use, and not be hindered by her pregnancy. So I suppose under normal circumstances, it wouldn't be heretical. Although an overly zealous (or bored) priest might still take interest. On a side note, I thought I'd mention that the tech-priest happens to be the father, as some people were asking about that.

DastardlyIceHole said:

Uh, it seems he haven't kept his Mechadendrites in check...

Anyway, I really think such a procedure would not interest the Ecclesiarchy more than anything else.

Luthor Harkon said:

Luthor, kindly keep your tentacle porn out of my WH40K.

Thanks!

...

=P

The father is a tech priest, but what is the mother? Just curious.

Also, how far along is the pregnacy? This is the most important question.

2 months or less, I'd say how did she find out? More but less than 6 months she's not showing, in any event. Even if she's 7 months or later she might not show.

Generally I'd say, if the group is in the middle of an adventure, and she's not showing, then finish it. After, she gets downtime, and maybe brings in a character to use in the meantime. It seems that someone is having a kneejerk reaction to 'OMG, she's pregnant, put her feet up, and make her rest'. Newsflash guys, women have been working and having children for several thousand years. In some societies, women will tend to work up until the day they give birth, then take a few days off just after, and then go back to work. My impression of the 40k universe, is that's it's more like that than not.

DastardlyIceHole said:

But think on all those roleplaying opportunities they might be losing! Not to mention the ridiculous the other players can inflict on, well, the battery-powered cog-boy and the mother!

Sorry, sorry... but as I said, think about all that roleplaying opportunities! The drama! The decision of risking the baby's unborn life to rescue the group!

And the Imperial Guard has non-combatant entourages behind every unit, so I suppose they include child care ^^

Argus Van Het said:

This is... a tad unlikely. The great majority of Guard regiments are gender segregated. Regiments like the Valhallan 597th are unusual in that they have members of both genders. So troopers having kids is highly discouraged, as it represents a drop in unit efficiency, and the Administratum typically takes steps to keep it from happening.

Denmar1701 said:

What? I don't mean to nit-pick, but there's no way that's correct. It's not the massive bulging stomach that looks like a still-frame from Alien , but there's a weight gain starting week 6 (as little as a lb) and by week 20 it's almost always a seriously apparent, you know, pregnant belly...

Anyways, I don't think anyone would bat an eyelash, in the general 40k universe, with certain worlds as notable exeptions. Normal pregnancy is inconvenient, messy, and filled with hormone-driven madness. Why would anyone subject themselves to that when they can apply a vacuum + Kolto tank and back to business and normal. Obviously this is an oversimplified (and, in line with this thread, suitably crude ) way of saying it, but I think you can understand the meaning. If any valuable personnel had the option of being useless to the Inquisition (or any organization with life and death power, which is like everybody, grimdark) for nine months or having to undergo a highly unpleasant and (hopefully, grimdark) dangerous operation, that leaves a valuable hostage in their Inquisitor's hands, what do you think they would do?

BangBangTequila said: