Hey Guys,

I've been reading through the Mass Combat rules again in BFK for large scale operations because I want to throw my group into a few warfare endeavors. However, the more I read them, the more confused I am, mostly in regards to the "Orders", "Engaged Units", and "Attacking".

First of all Attack is an order for a mass combat unit, but the way it is written it sounds like it is the ONLY action a unit can take while engaged, since engaged units must attack at all times. So how to orders such as Charge, Flank, Feint, Disengage and Dig in work? Do they happen before the units engage or instead of attacking? Or do units get to attack and do one of those actions automatically while engaged with enemy units?

I would believe complex actions like "Dig In" couldn't work if the unit is engaged, because its tough to build entrenchments while in a full on firefight, which would make disengage actually useful since you are "pulling out" of the fight.

I was imagining Engaged units working the same way as PCs in close combat worked, until you take some kind of action to withdraw you couldn't do other actions that require you to be "out of combat".

But that brings us to Charge, Flank, and Feint. Are these done in place of an attack order? Or are they Along with another order such as a cautious movement or advance? The rules don't really specify what actions do what except that a unit can only use one order a turn. Which means a "Charge" wouldn't actually do anything, just reduce morale on the enemy unit and take less damage without actually attacking (And dealing physical damage to) the opposing unit, which to me seems like the opposite intention of what a "Charge" should do.

I know I covered alot, I would just like some clarification for my sanity's sake, or any ideas on how other GMs were handling this.

Thanks!

I, too, would love some info on this... confusing stuff, it.

Do not worry about being confused, even weathered wargamers do get confused by these rules. Mostly probably, because they are as flawed as rules can be, unclear, unlogical, unworkable. I tried to get my brain around it, but could not until I realised they were indeed that bad.

I know this is sorry advice and won't help you a lot, especially as I have no good alternative ruleset ready for your use. The idea of adapting some of the tabletop rules from Epic and Space Marine seems obvious, but adds tons of complexity to what is a roleplaying game, and will most probably demand too much time or be of limited interest in players and DM. As such, my advice would be to 'judge' the players plans and dispositions as DM, make a calculated decision of the probable result ( a few randomly rolled dice behind a screen, some knowing looks and checking the rules a few times most often does the trick of ensuring players do not feel cheated by 'chance') and then focus on the flashpoints where the PC's are. Then let their actions determine how the results on the flashpoints are and how this affects your judgement on the battle.

Friedrich van Riebeeck, Navigator Primus, Heart of the Void

I think most people simply do not use the overly complex (for the little amount of detail gained) wargame rules from BFK.

Since the RPG stats have nothing to do with those rules, i suggest using one squad/vehicle of 40k per regiment/platoon/whatever you are using as a base unit. (Gives strength 10 per unit and vehicles suffer a bit, due to so few details.)