I use them as individuals, but I keep seeing comments on the forums indicating others use them as a horde enemy.

My players mow through them at a good rate as it is, using them as a horde seems crazy. The new weapon stats, as yet untested, should hopefully make things more balanced for my group, but the idea of 60 Fire Warriors running together a pack doesn't sit with me.

They have squads of 12 in the setting/tabletop, are disciplined soldiers and operate in the field as a greater force... why would they clump together and charge the enemy, when squads spreading out makes more sense to control the kill zone.

So, do you use them as hordes or individuals and how do you find they work in game?

Hordes, because otherwise they can't hurt the PCs.

1 Horde magnitude is not 1 warrior, remember.

So a 20Mag horde can easily be a ten-man fire team. Use several of those -dispersed- and the players will waste a lot of time moving between each one, and a lot of firepower in over-killing them.

Don Raccoon said:

Well, they do have two Horde traits in their stat-block in the rulebook, so I think using them as a Horde is at least somewhat intended (as opposed to Pathfinders, who as per Mark of the Xenos, are noted as not being intended for use in Hordes, due to their scout/skirmisher role).

Small hordes of Fire Warriors (10-20 magnitude, representing a typical Team) are my preferred use for them - the Fire Drill Trait gives them an extra ranged attack each round, so a Mag 20 team puts out 3 attacks for 3d10+12 each, which is fairly nasty if you pair them with a Devilfish APC to deploy and extract them.

Tau warfare should be mobile above all else - the precise application of ranged firepower to a specific strategic location at a particular time, withdrawing once the task is complete. The Tau don't believe in attrition or acceptable casualties, so withdrawing in the face of heavy opposition (often to a pre-arranged rally point, under cover of ambushing troops or the attacks of a fast mobile reserve - Stealth Suits are good for this, as are Vespid and Crisis Suits). Frequently, these fighting withdrawals are deliberate bait to lure an enemy into a prepared ambush or kill-zone - this is the most basic element of the Tau strategic discipline known as Kauyon or 'The Patient Hunter'.

I disagree that Fire Warriors are intended as a Horde enemy. Nothing in their profile supports this.

Look at the Chaos Heretic, the Hormagaunt or the Termagant. All say they can be used as Horde and all have an alternate armour if used as such. Nothing in the Fire Warrior profile states this nor do they have a Horder armour rating.

I think their inability to wound marines on anything other than a really good roll, is down to FFG making marines too overpowered and aliens underpowered. Something they have now acknowledged with the release of new weapon stats.

Yes the official reason is speed of play, but rolling 1 less die doesn't change how long the roll takes, this is clearly a fix for something they won't admit is an error.

No, Fire Warriors will remain individuals I think, for me. The new weapon stats should even things out a little better. Until somebody comes up with a decent fix for the game as a whole.

A combat with a few fire warriors isn't a crucial part of the mission, in all probability. Why should I waste time faffing around recording individual wounds and throwing dice with minimal chance of doing anything to the players as part of an inconsequential combat when I can roll them up into a horde, do some actual damage, have a far faster-running, more fun and cinematic fight, in half the time!

Speed of play between combat with a horde and individuals is a massive difference. Ten to hit rolls instead of three, Wound tracks to count, reactions to use on both sides to dodge. Whereas using horde rules, I can get the fight done in 3 minutes instead of fifteen, and get on with the action.

Don Raccoon said:

What, not even the two Traits that only provide a benefit to creatures used as a Horde?

Definately multiple small hordes for me. I look at it as their squad training making them an effective unit, trained to focus fire to bring down targets, move together and generally, work as a single entity on the battlefield. After all, the needs of the Greater Good outweigh the needs of the one.

N0-1_H3r3 said:

They can be used by non horde enemies. The Horde tag for a trait means it can be used by hordes as well, to my understanding

Don Raccoon said:

No, they can't. Look at the text for the Horde Traits - each of them applies only to Hordes, and grants no benefit on anything that isn't a Horde (of the two that Fire Warriors get, Fire Drill grants a Horde an additional attack beyond the number it gets for its Magnitude, while Fighting Withdrawal allows them to flee when broken - a state which doesn't apply to non-Horde enemies - at a speed of their choosing, giving them the opportunity to shoot as they flee). Hordes can, with only a few exceptions, use all Talents and Traits normally anyway, so your explanation for the Horde signifier in a Trait name would be entirely superfluous.

Fire Warriors have two Traits which apply only to Hordes. That, to my mind, means that they're intended to be used as Hordes at least some of the time.

The one mission I used fire warriors, I used them in hordes of 15 magnitude. With fire drill, that's two shots per horde with a +1D10 damage bonus. Nothing to be sneezed at, especially if the fire warriors are in near total cover. I don't believe they should be used in much larger hordes than that, it doesn't gel with the background as I see it.

Just a question...

Why the issue with knowing how to use a certain "Monster" entry ?

It's all about the situation, going straight up against a Marine Squad in stand-up fights is not very smart. Create situations where the preassure is on the Marines and not the enemies, create situations where the marines NEED to brave enemy fire risking the lucky shot that will potentialy cost them the mission a fate point or renown. If it's a stand up fight, with Gallons of blood and lead flying go for Orks just make sure the big one with the meat cleaver gets into melee range for a good finnale.

Isidro

I believe Fire Warriors should be used in Hordes with a transport. The Horde offers a small threat to the marines while the transport could cause an unwanted situation with allowing the Fire Warriors to change fire positions, act as a "retreat" element, and offer a bit more fire support with a bit harder to "kill" emphasis. Fire Warriors should be used as a basis for a "patrol" though. You will rarely see Fire Warriors engaging an enemy without some other form of support...Stealth Suits, Crisis Suits, Path Finders, etc.

I had prepared to use Fire Warriors as small hordes in one mission and I gave them Devilfishes for transport. In the end it turned out that the Fire Warriors never left their transports because they just parked the Devilfishes in good firing position and proceeded to pin the whole Kill Team with burst-cannons untill their devastator finally got them with his last two krak missiles.