I'm surprised no one has mentioned this before but the new 'loose' format of the Creature Guide when it comes to special creature actions is confusing me. For example, in the Tome of Adventure, soldiers have the 'Subdue' action. In the Creature Guide, soldiers don't have any icons indicating that they get access to any action cards - so no Subdue action?

Am I missing something here? I must admit, it's all very well having the freedom to choose your own special actions for creatures, but I miss the way it was done up until now, when they were supplied along with stats.

It's been noted in reviews (including mine of the pdf version on RPG now) that the Creature Guide suffers in that each monster is supposed to have a suite of available actions (usually at least 2 in the Tome of Adventure format) but the GM is left to pick those from the list of actions in the Guide (or cards in Creature Vault ) without guidance beyond the traits in the actual cards section (which is a problem see below).

In the original Tome of Adventure approach, NPC's/creatures have actions, usually 2, but up to 4 (e.g., wargor)", in addition to the "basic actions everyone/thing has".

The Creature Guide approach, it seems that either creatures only get non-basic actions if they have the extra action icon on their cards (a major shift for a creature like a wargor with 4 actions in Tome but one icon). This would be in addition to the "basic [monster type = beastman] actions" (if any) which is Savage Strike for beastmen.

In terms of Soldiers, Subdue is listed as "NPC action". The card in Creature Vault has, on Reckless side" 'Used by soldiers' (information not in the Creature Guide) so if this is to be a basic action for soldiers is not clear. This is also peculiar in that that "used by soldiers" note does not appear on the Conservative Side, but Soldiers are listed as having a Conservative stance.

You have this with other creatures too. A Giant Wolf and Boar in Tome of Adventure have Vicious Bite (a basic bestial so one can read Creature Guide as saying the wolf and boar still have it), and also both have Dangerous When Cornered. The creature cards for both in Creature Vault have no icons, so a strict reading of Creature Guide says it doesn't get this second action (note the Guide 's Dangerous When Cornered says swarm both sides but the Vault card has Giant Wolf and Boar noted as using it on Reckless side - but it's still not basic).

The more recent Omens of War takes a better approach, having "suggested actions" listed after each creature's text. It also explains the icons as indicating "action cards in addition to standard ones", not "in addition to basic ones". You can read standard as being "the ones they usually have, not just basic".

The better way to handle it, in my view, is a "what feels right at your table" way which for me is to treat every creature as having a Tome of Adventure -like array of at least 2 standard cards, maybe more if it's supposed to be nastier (as standard) and then tailor individual encounters with as many special cards as icons say.

What an unbelievable and utter balls-up! What the hell were they thinking!!? This is ridiculous.

I swear this new system is beginning to show itself to be a complete and utter mess. And now that the new hardbacks 'complete listings' of info have been swiftly made incomplete with the addition of new material from Omens of War et al, the whole dog's breakfast is really starting to annoy me.

Myself I feel it's a manifestation of the editing problems overall with FFG products. A good editor is not just spell-checking and grammar, continuity cross references etc. - they are organziation, flow, layout, useful repetition or redundancy judgement calls etc.

I love the game system and after the frustration of going "WTF???" repeatedly with the Guide and Vaults just moved on to, "whatever action cards I feel like giving them".

I should note there's the other stream of creature action info that is "if you want to give extra actions to a creature, use it's Expertise rating as a guide for how many extras" (Tome of Adventure page 44).

So a Vampire (for which we have no Tome of Adventure type guidance) should have about 2 +5 actions by that standard - though the action card from vault says 4 extra action cards (beyond whatever is supposed to be base). As an example of "pleasing myself" to sort it out, I have 3 actions I consider standard to vampires and add 4 to individual ones.

Wow this is....amazing. I wondered if I was just missing something from my recently purchased Creature Guide & Vault, now I see I'm not. Like UH says, this line is really starting to show some real problems, very annoyingly not from mechanics or game-play, just from a editing/rules writing standpoint.

I also agree with Valvorik, I do believe this is just another manifestation of the terrible editing department at FFG. Like he says it's not just spell-checking and grammar, there's a lot more to it than that and FFG consistently botches it and just about every game they put out. FFG has a reputation for several things, some positive (Great Components, Wonderful Customer Service, etc.) and some very negative. In this case of poor editing and/or poor rules writing or consistent rules format, I think their reputation is very well earned .

I think we should skip official rules at that point and use home rules. Amount of mess is beyond understanding with this Warhammer.

Ok, I have discovered the really annoying issue of not knowing what are the STANDARD actions for each creature.

I am aware that some creatures can get additional actions with the symbols on the creature card, but I am having a difficult time finding what are the standard actions for each

-ashe-

justo role play it. stronger enemy - more extra actions etc etc.