How about FFG subsidizing prize kits in Europe, to bring it to more or less the same price point as in the US? Yes, it would cost them money, but would probably increase exposure to the game and earn them more money in the long run.

If someone started hosting tourneys here in Norway, perhaps I'd try my luck someday.

rings said:

~What, that half didn't watch 3rd episode? There is no such thing as melee tournament!

Can we stop this bull about Worlds in Europe? Never gonna happen, so what's the point of this? FFG doesn't care about organized play anyway, so be happy what you got (Stahleck/card design). FFG doesn't care about rules properly and you want them to care about big tournaments? Be serious. They only need some tournays to observe what's currently going on with game (mainly Worlds), otherwise they don't care.

As for argument about FFG not considering european results and opinions - maybe you should write more here instead on french forum? Oh and btw: deck lists with card titles in French language? At least worthless.

The only real and possible world championships is via OCTGN, and you know what? From what I see most people are not interested. So stop this bull about dreams, because the only result is negativity between USA and European (French?) players.

It's clear to me that probably for cost issues FFG will never support a "Worlds" or whatever you want to call it in Europe. The problem in that is not so much the title (who cares really?) but the support. It's nigh impossible to get prize support for tourneys here. That's why we feel left out here. Even our tournaments are not even mentioned on the website unless we mention them. Surely that's not a cost issue. We fully understand the cost problem, but we would like to hear from FFG or their distributors (not sure where the responsability lies here sorry) in terms of support. Even if it's :"sorry guys it's too expensive for us". Also Europe is the fist on to speak up, but what about China, it seems they have a huge community growing there. They deserve a bit of love as well.

Back on topic, I will keep you posted after the French National, so we can compare the result over the pond. From the few rumours I heard, it appears, that Martell Summer is the favorite (no surpise here), but could be hurt be the resurgence on GJ winter. Also I forsee many Control-Toolbox-Trait manipulation-Maester Lanni decks. Also you can bet that the most played house will be Stark. Always very popular with newer players. Also from what I've seen earlier in this topic it seems that in the US people change houses much more? Is that correct? Maybe it's just me, but I get the impression that once people have chosen a House, they stick to it for major tourneys around here. That factor alone could explain the differences in House representation I suspect. But as I said you'll have to wait a couple of weeks for the breakdown.

Rogue30 said:

You "negativy".

"maybe you should write more here instead on french forum? " Euh... Yes, I write. Now. I "negativy"? pfff

We try to found a solution to content European and American Player. You think it's right the GenCon continue to call "World". You say OTCGN is the only possibility to make world. I agree. But Stahleck is "European" tournament. We are not pretentious, and call him "World".

You disapointed me Rings

If french (and European) players write on their own forum, may be it's because majority of player don't speak English (look at me with my very poor english). Do you speak French? Or Spanish? Or Italian? Europe is lot of different country and langage

Agot isn't only on FFG forum incredulous

Katagena said:

I don't want to offend but I would point out that the people on the US/English forums here aren't the ones complaining that the Euro people think they are "second hand players". I think it is perfectly reasonable to say that if the European players want more recognition by the US players then they need to post here and in English.

Also doesn't China have far bigger tournaments than the US or Europe?

Katagena said:

@Katagena:

Just in case rings doesn't see this. The person who went on the rant there was not rings, but was Rogue30. Just so the disappointment is pointed in the right direction.

@Rogue30:

Can we take it down a notch? Try for 1 minute to consider how all the Europeans must feel. If the shoe was on the other foot, you'd want someone to listen to you too.

scarletnite said:

Pretty sure Rogue is one of the Europeans.

Apologize for my error.

European players will not be respect by Americain Player. Player who don't respect an other meta is not a good player, just a poor stupid boy.

I think majority of American player respect European Player, like European player respect American Player. It's not a problem.

What I try to explain you, it's AGOT is a very important LCG in Europe. And we need respect "by FFG". No problem with American Player (juste one or two silly boy). And for this respect, I think World at The Gencon must be change name. And why not, World go to Europe one year on two, for example. L5R, VTES use this princip.

I hope you heard me, and apoligize again for my poor English, I try to communicate in an language is not mine.

To my understanding, FFG does not handle organized play outside of the US. I believe any number of different "partner companies" (like Edge), handles the organized play in those countries.

Darksbane said:

I'm European (Norway) and 100% with Darksbane on this one. I have no idea what's going on in the rest of Europe, because I don't speak French or German or Spanish or any of the other numerous European languages. The US play environment is visible to me because the official forum is in English, along with the excellent podcast (2champs1chump), cardgamedb etc.

If it's not in English, I pretty much have no idea what it is..

Edge are the french company for AGOT, but in fact FFG and Edge are really "linked" (just look at the forum web address...It's edge spain ^^)

And really Edge have no money (and so no time) to organise organised play. In addition, there is not a single company that take care of AGOT for the whole Europe...And another thing is about rules: It's FFG who create card and rules, and other company just sell it...

diana olympos said:

The reason that FFG creates partnerships with other companies in other countries is so that the game can be manufactured, distributed, and organized in those other countries. FFG does not have the time or resources to handle those operations overseas. Thus, they create partnerships. Heck, most US citizens have been disappointed with the lack of Organized play in the states.

So sadly, if Edge is the French company responsible for that stuff, and they don't have the time or money, then I simply don't see it happening, because FFG has put that responsibility in Edge's hands.

Honestly, gripes should be going up, not down. If there is a real need for European support and a possible name change for GenCon due to an offensive title, then those complaints should be taken to FFG staff directly via email, phone calls, etc. All this bickering and, let's be honest, complaining in the forums won't get anything done on the supposition that FFG "doesn't listen anyway". Real action by the concerned parites should be taken rather than just poking the bear and starting a potential flame war between US players and a couple French ones.

On the issue of this thread being constructive, it has since ceased to be IMHO since the same issue is being beaten into the ground with minimal representation by the European group. In light of that, I would suggest bringing some constructivity to the dialogue at hand or dropping it to discuss the original topic of this thread.

Boo Martell Summer!

Boerta said:

We have European listeners?! BADASS!!!

Sorry, this excites me quite a lot.

True to the bon mot by the great Bavarian comedian Karl Valentin, that "everything has been said already, just not by everybody", I'll chime in with my 0.02 €.

As a European player, I could not care less about the World Championship issue. The designation has historically been associated wit the tourney at Gencon, that's not likely to change, and I fully understand and accept the reasons for it. (~Maybe I can simply afford to be this generous because I'm about as far away from winning a tourney as EV Füssen are from their next German championship. Hell, I came in fourth in our measley six-player-league this year, so there). As Dobbler pointed out, FFG doesn't even market the game in Europe, they licensed it away.

I agree that better prize support for the European tourney scene is a desideratum. The numbers Thorondor quoted above should be an eye opener. The hefty price tag is the one reason why we don't have a South German Regional this year, for example. Maybe prize kits could be distributed over the European partner companies in the future, instead of having to be ordered directly frm FFG? That'd be cool. Besides, maybe these partner companies should be the first adressees regarding requests for prize support anyway, especially if they're putting out localized versions of the game (Spain and France, AFAIK). I mean, if you wanted to, say, throw a release party for, say, the French edition of ADWD, you'd contact the French publisher for support, not the American one, right?

The one topic among those that came up here that is most important for me is the matter of better interconnection of the international AGoT scene. Right now, I, as an European player, am in the slightly bizarre situation of feeling much better connected to the American scene than the French or Spanish one. I mean, we're gettingt there, and I think that the release of agotcards.org was a big step. Still, I'd love to see even more interaction and exchange between the three draught horses in the troika of international Thrones online platforms (FFG boards, cardgamedb, agotcards). IMO, they complement each other wonderfully. I'd like to reiterate the invitation to the European players to come and contribute more to these boards - post tourney dates, write up reports, discuss strategies etc. Conversely, it would be nice to see even more American contributions to agotcards, and more activity from both sides of the Narrow Sea on cardgamedb. Oh, and more Asian contributors everywhere.

One last thing: I've never considered the FFg forums to be "the US boards". They're the international forums, plain and simple, right?

Ratatoskr said:

That seem a bit paradoxal for me^^

For agotcards, there are lot of asian people on, and we will post report when the event section wil be there ^^

And really, you said Edge is different from FFg, but in fact, it's not...You are on a forum propulse by edge spain technlogy^^

But we still try to find something we can post around about report of french tournament (and so on italian and spanish ones)

Meh.

Lange d'oil is just vulgar latin. They don't even have the decency to use hoc. Now if they put their deck lists in latin... that would be cool.

After all, we're just speaking the red-headed step child of frisian, with some latin, danish, mis-pronounced norman (which is french bludgeoned by norse), and spelled funny due to post-mediaeval intellectuals wanting it to be taking more seriously, and a vowel shift. (I recall Stag being involved.)

Though don't forget lombardian latin, andalusian romance, and our feline friends over in barcelona.

Yes I think its time to hijack this thread into a philological satire troll fest. Its at least more interesting then Dobbler explaining reality, Kategna being insulted by word choice. And Diana happy that N. French (Nate French ???) got 70+ players (which is awesome), but then that's Nate what did you expect? Seriously the thread sounds like a political debate. So why not a flame war... at least people will respond to each other... lets see if any other language can win the fubar award... (I still think English has it).

:-P

FFG has nothing to do with the publishing of the games outside of North America. There are partners who hold the license for that. You want to complain about a non-NA situation regarding one of their games, take it up with your local group. The reason why this board is maintained by Edge is precisely because it is the international forum.

You can dislike the situation but that is not going to change the situation.I have little sympathy for someone who would rather complain to the void about a perceived problem than take it up with the people who are clearly in charge. You want more o better prize support that is not creating a card? Talk to your local publisher. You want to help design a card talk to FFG. You want the world to be more aware of your local, regional, or national scene post here, on the international forums. You don't know English? Post it using Google Translate or even post it in your native tongue. Someone will translate it.

Worlds rotating is a great idea... and I'm sure when FFG is making millions of dollars off the competitive play of AGoT they'll get right on that. Until then, a name is a name. Beat the biggest field with the best record and you'll get your props. Damon made sure that the Stahleck Champion got a card. I'm sure he'll do it again. I have no idea why you guys didn't get one for melee. I'd ask him if it matters to you. A bunch of us have is work email, PM if you need it.

Can we please go back to actually discussing the game now?

More things that I've learned:

Event control is key. If you can control which events go through and which ones do not, that's how to do it. But it's not just events - it's all triggered effects. For this reason, I think that GJ is going to become the top dawg (you heard me) in Environment.Next. To Be a Kraken, Paper Shield, and potentially The Hand's Judgement are going to dominate the scene. At the same time, we're likely to see a boom in the usage of Euron Greyjoy the raider, and Brienne the Lady: Both of them cut out events and Brienne even stops the opponent from triggering anything while she's participating. If she can be stood and used to defend or attack a second time, then you're golden. If you're playing Martell yourself, Shadow of the South can be a game changer.

I suspect that winter is going to be big as well. It seems to be slowly gaining steam, but the fact is, the winter agenda hurts the winter player far less if it's summer than the summer agenda hurts the summer player if it's winter. Hence, there's almost no reason not to play winter decks, unless you have overwhelming reasons to play summer (like you're playing Martell, or Targ). Sam + Carrion Birds are useful for draw anyway, and unless you're terribly worried about the resource constraints, several decks can be made in a winter variant and still be incredibly strong, including Bara rush, Stark knights, and of course Greyjoy.

Hand control has always been a winning strategy - just take a look at all the times Lannister won tournaments. It wasn't just because they could consistently kneel most of your characters - it was because they could win intrigue challenges each and every turn consistently, and out-draw the heck out of you. With those two combined, games are won. For that reason, Alannys Greyjoy is my new favorite card. With To Be a Kraken, she is a miniature, shriveled, old juggernaut.

The King's Law is a very useful plot, amazingly useful. If the opponent is recurring shadows cards, such as Sister of Truth (in conjunction with the Queen of Thorns), or Venomous Blade, or Shadow of the East/South, then they may have to pull those cards during a phase that they're not expecting to, and it can really disrupt them. With some, such as the Red Keep, it's even likely to just take them out altogether, unless they have some kind of tricky nonsense to bring them out ahead of schedule.

Fleeing to the Wall is essential. Enough decks are running very location heavy that I think it's well worth including this plot, especially if you're already playing Blockade - just replace that one. More than one deck at the regionals in NYC had probably 6+ locations out at a time, including mine. A single Fleeing to the Wall is an auto-win against some decks, and usually not a hindrance for yourself against any deck, assuming you're not also playing a location-heavy deck.

Trait manipulation is strong, and getting much stronger. There seem to be very few cards which allow you to bypass this. Crown of Winter is one. Red Viper is himself immune to trouble. Even with those, watch out for a character with a lot of power on them getting stolen with something like Rhaegar's Harp + Horn of Dragons, or Old Nan and Horn of Dragons.

Things I learned:

Know who your friends are at a melee table and examine every possible card combo on the table.

If you're at a table with Dobbler, pissing him off is fun, but usually doesn't end well.

Event control is important. Paper shield should be in EVERY deck. (personal opinion)

Katagena said:

~So there IS a little justice on this world, don't you agree rings?

Fotonurth said:

I don't know if Paper Shield *should* be in every deck, but I predicted that it would become ubiquitous once re-released to the environment, which is why I was not happy to see it return. Some of my local meta-mates doubted me when I said how prevalent it would become, but sure enough, it's everywhere now, for better or worse.

Auto-includes annoy me, because I see it as limiting options and variety in deck-building. I do agree that everyone should strongly consider how they are going to deal with Paper Shield whenever they put events in their decks (without gold or influence cost) that they are counting on getting to play. One will have to hedge their bets and run event protection from now on. Or just avoid events altogether and laugh that your opponent wasted three deck slots on a card he or she will never get to use during a game with you.

I preferred Hand's Judgment for event cancel. It had a cost so not everyone ran it, yet it was available to anyone who really wanted event cancel in their decks.

Nate once told me that "The Hand's Judgement" was his favorite cancel card. He didn't really go into detail, but the fact that it required more planning to pull off, and affected every event card, I'm sure played into it. Paper Shield can't cancel it, but He Calls It Thinking does. Even so, I'm happy to see Paper Shield back in the environment. Yes, it will be super-prevalent, but I'm fine with that. I feel the game is better severed with a general cancel. I'd also like to see more house-themed "cancels."

I can't say I'm paying huge attention to what is happening during the Regionals. I pick up things here and there, I'm amazed at the amount of Martell being played and winning, I still believe there is a Greyjoy deck out there waiting to win a Regional. There are far, far more people who play this game casually than competitively. And FFG still charges too much money to host their Regionals. Some European players feel they are getting the shaft. Some American players feel they are getting the shaft. The game is becoming more popular, and more people are being drawn to it every week. And OP is really just a few tweaks away from being really good, but no-one knows what, exactly, those tweaks are.

Also, and just confirming what I already know, King Blith will still make that tragic play mistake that costs his a shot at the title.

I would have preferred Put to the Question.

bloodycelt said:

FOD Littlefinger