Ok. Americans player are better than European player. The American player who participate at the Gencon, are the better of the world. Ridiculous -_-'

There are lot of player in Europe... like USA. Ok. The lvl is equal. Yes, in our national, there are not 70 players competitive. But like in your home. Juste pathetic

Why? Why we don't make World in Europe one year on two? European players and Americain players will be on the same step. Gencon is certainly a good thing. But in first, it's a game. A LCG game. It's not Magic, or L5R... who host World Championnsihp all around the world for the first, America/Europe for the second. We can make a big event in Europe. Even if we have not the Gencon, we have better than Indianapolis. Gualdo is right; Indy is not interesting when we take plane from Europe.

The World can be in Europe next year. And you can make a National Championship USA the same year, at the Gencon. What's the problem? European AND American are happy. Isn't it?

Nobody want speak French? Nobody want make World in Europe.

Katagena said:

Nobody said Americans were better than Europeans. What we said was that for FFG it does not make logical sense to try and organize a World Championships outside of the US.

Why ?? there is not EDGE link with FFG??

Cause if you look at FFG Forum web adress there is EDGE, and Edge is the society who take care of AGOT in france....

Didn't the Stahleck player get the same prize as the World's Champion?

I could really care less if they had

World Championship at Gencon and Championnat du Monde at Stahleck (but then wouldn't Weltmeisterschaft make more sense?)

FYI: I used google machine translation, and while a coworker verified the french seems feasable, the german I can only hope (Maybe Old Ben could correct me?)

And then the Gencon and Stalhleck winners can for their own bragging rights play on OCTGN with their decks. And take the title "Master of the Universe" or "Conan: King of Beers", or something like that (after all FFG definitely does not care about our Martian players).

Ok But in this case, FFG have to name it "American championship" cause it's like european, it's concern only americans...

And make a world championship without more than half of the world is not really a world one...

If they name it American Championship, wouldn't that make it so European players are not welcome to attend?

diana olympos said:

But this isn't true at all. Anyone can come to Gencon and compete. And I've met people from other countries outside of the US who have made it to Gencon to compete in the GoT World Championships.

Sure, it is much, much more expensive for someone to fly in from Europe, or China, or any other country, but they are still welcome to come.

The term "American" when applied to a championship for agot doesn't sound right. It brings up all that patriotic baggage it doesn't need. I think the better solution is to just call each World Championship in the native tongue of where its being held.

This isn't highlander, due to the difficulty of travel, not all regional winners attend gencon, and the World Champions from Gencon and Stahleck are not likely to have the resources to play each other in an official capacity. Hence it seems pragmatic for there to be multiple World Champions. National would suggest "best in the country", but considering each are open and have had multinational players, the word is not appropriate. And Continental just makes one sound like breakfast.

bloodycelt said:

I like this idea^^

Ok but You Know soem US player said they wwant to come to Stalheck, and they are welcome, still in the european championship.....

SO really , you have to think that for french people, way to say things are important, and saying it's WOrld just make use a bit annoy....

ANd in addition, European think that Us player just see them as second hand player....So It can be a bit difficult to calmly discuss about this type of things

a simple and sensible solution: abolish the use of "world championship" as a header for any tournament, rename the two-day gencon tournament "north american continental championship," and call stahlek the "european continental championship" going forward.

the europeans are of course correct in saying that "world championship" is a misnomer when applied to the big tournament at gencon each year, on that i'm pretty sure we all agree. toward the beginning of the game i'm sure the gencon tournament was the "tournament of tournaments" each year and that the player base largely resided in the US, but it definitely doesn't accurately reflect the world-wide nature of AGOT in this era. and what seems to US players to be a trifling issue of semantics (we're all used to calling gencon 'worlds" at this point; and the champion of stahlek now gets a "championship card design," the game's highest prize) also seems to be a pretty annoying grievance to the europeans when heaped on the other things they protest protest about (rightfully so, imo -- based on the evidence, there's little question that FFG is more responsive to the results of US tourneys and the whining of US players, etc.). simply renaming the two large tournaments would be an outstanding next step for FFG in further harmonizing with their faithful european customer base, all at practically no cost, and docking only slightly the perceived grandeur of the gencon championship. and because both large tournaments each year are aligned by continent, it's natural to call each of them "continental championships."

i understand that having a "world championship" each year is important to FFG for use in advertising the competitive aspect of the game, but their OP program is so obviously weak at present that i sincerely doubt that the title really matters to anyone who didn't already intend to pick up the game or switch CCGs or whatever. and whether it's called "worlds" or "north american continentals," all of us established players will attend either way and have a great time; the only real loss of prestige suffered would be on the part of the champions, who would have to settle for attempting to impress their already uninterested female friends with a less flashy yet still incredibly dorky collectible card gaming title.

diana olympos said:

I don't think most Americans feel that way.

I wrote a post very similar to finite's, only to find he had posted his first...

So +1 for that.

Dobbler said:

Ok, I think I can explain you, and you will understand:

Imagine, The World is in Europe. Sure, it is much, much more expensive for someone to fly in from Amercia, or China, or any other country, but they are still welcome to come.

You are welcome too.

danach81 said:

~ahem... Thanks for clarifying what I said so eloquently, finite. +1

I think rather than switch it back and forth each year we are going to probably have to give them each their own title of similar stature.

I can barely afford to go to Gencon, let alone Europe. Plus, if I ever get the chance to go to Europe, I surely will not be playing cards there.

Fieras said:

~How about having championship cards only printed in the player's native language.

Just my last one ;-) Last year I spent 17 days in california and was "the trip of my life".

This year I was planning to Gencon... well... Indianapolis from a "turistic point of view" has nothing... Chicago is the nearest "attraction". A flight "Milan - Los Angeles" costed last year 600 euro. Fly to Indianapolis costs 1000 euro. Fly to NY cost 450 Euro... that's why I prefer come to a NYC tourney, spend an half and visit a great city...

Last year we planned to make "superfinal" via OCTGN2... but let's say, after winning I found a little no sense cause I played with erick lots of time and continue to do that... so no need to make a superfinal! Moreover he helped and continue to help with my deck so... :-)

That's why I passed... 1000 euro "ONLY FLIGHT" for a tourney would be great if only I can "connect" also a touristic point of view... when my boss will raise my "end of money money" I can rethink about that... or if FFG put some job on the board also for non-us citizenns I can transfer myself :-)

Last thing, I don't really mind about "naming of a tourney", but I agree that if FFG will set the title "World Champion" "moving each year" would be great for worldwide comunity. This only with condition that FFG pays at least ASIAN, EUROPEAN, AMERICAN champion the trip to the location of the world tourney... if not, the title moves, but the best players do not compete with themselves, so we are in the same situation we are now :-)

ONLY a tourney where all best players can compete is truly the WORLD champion. Only "moving" the title location has not really sense.

BTW is this the most hijacked way off track thread ever?!?

To continue the hijacking.....

I'm guessing the appearance of paying attention to American whining (which we are **** good at) is probably a case of the squeaky wheel getting the oil. After all the official forum is in English where most American players post. However, I do know for a fact that when cards are designed the developers take into account both hemispheres (I'm switching up the word use since I too agree that Continental makes me think of breakfast) when creating cards. The know that one card will seem broken in one meta but perfect in the other a flip that around for other cards. So they do attempt to make cards to satisfy both groups.

If FFG ever decides to rename GenCon to something other than World Champion I can guarantee one thing, that will be the year the Kennon wins.

I'm totaly agree with Gualdo for the "touristic area". I've seen last year, that is too expansive, for Indianapolis.

Like Fieras, if I have the chance to go to USA, I prefer travel than play card.

I'm sure, the idea of the title moving one year on two, is a good idea.

Or Gencon become "North American Champion", and in Europe "European Champion". 6 cards created by year by winners. Equality and respect between European and Americain Players.

There are lot of players in Europe, like USA. Quality, and Qantity. Don't take our for fool plz. We respect you. Do the same.

That will be better for world community

Fieras said:

And even if some did, why would the Euros care?

finitesquarewell said:

+1 to Erick

<Note: Speaking Ex Parte, as a former Community Support Associate>

I'm more than a little sympathetic to the issues that have often plagued AGOT players outside of US, and particularly in countries where a foreign language edition is present. There has often been a disconnect between both how organized play is run and who is responsible for it. In some cases, FFG provided support to other countries, and at other times, partner organizations like Edge, Millenium, or Pegasus provided their own. (And in a few instances, created content that was subsequently sourced by FFG). I especially like Erick's suggestion, as there is now also a Chinese edition and growing meta, so an Asian Championship can't be far behind. I don't know if there are still any players in Australia... to cover another continent. I would volunteer to run the Antarctic Continentals if someone funds the trip.

The very issue of having "championships" tied to existing conventions has been a difficult organizing principle for game companies. FFG has generally removed its presence official presence from all conventions but GenCon, and what events that are at something regional (See KublaCon) are generally run under the auspices of the current Regionals/Nationals structure, or are specially supported, directly negotiated events: Stahleck/ChiCon. Any holdover in nomenclature (GenCon = Worlds) probably dates back to the "time before" Euro-Style boardgames, when, while huge, Essen did not have the number of competitive tournies). Even local conventions can be problematic; As a Nights Watch, I had to decide between running a weekends worth of events at a hotel, necessitating a player by a $20-25 badge just to particpate, but with concommitant exposure, or pleasing my locals with cheaper events at a nigh-empty game store.

"Can't we all just get along." There are really just two kinds of people in the world anyway. People who play AGOT, and everybody else. >

@Finite: Agree on all accounts. GenCon is certainly not a "world" championship. In fact, I thought it used to be called "Nationals" way back when...but maybe I'm confused. In any case, there's really no justification other than the marketing. And to be honest, it sounds like this *uber creative* marketing is having the opposite intended effect, since it's contributing to a collective feeling of alienation of international players.

For the record, I don't agree that Europe's Throne tournaments are more important or anything...though with that many people, they are pretty exciting. I do see how some of the players there might feel like their preferences come second though. (After all, the forums are all in English, and foreign players are rarely highlighted on the news listings here.)

@Gualdo: If you ever come to NYC, you definitely should let me know. If you're thinking about coming around the time of GenCon, let me know. I am 90% certain I'm attending GenCon, and if I do, I was planning to fly. But if we got some people together, a road trip there could be a lot of fun. (Also, depending on timing, you're welcome to crash at my humble apartment for a night or two while you're in NYC. That should help reduce costs.)

I can't come this year but if some people in NYC want to help us organise sthg , i can try to come next year...

In fact just having someone to have a roadtrip instead of plane will save lot of money....

I will see in december, but we can maybe organise sthg with 2 or 3 french guy ^^

Speaking of which, Jester, Chaos, did you fly to gencon last year? Anyone from the westcoast roadtripping it?

So, the only thing we've learned this Regional Season is that calling GenCon the World Championship is offensive to the European players who are financially unable and unwilling to come to GenCon to compete. European players are as numerous and skilled as their US counterparts and want equal billing and treatment from FFG.

By the way, 33 different players played in the 3 East Coast Regionals combined, and if you add in the MN Regional that puts the US Regional turnout to date at 57? Not too shabby as I expect Kubla to have close to 30 different participants and the rest of the Midwest Regionals to produce at least 20 more players who haven't competed yet. By the end of the Regional season I expect at least 100 different players to have participated and wouldn't be surprised if that number went to 120.

By the way, I would like all the Major Tournament winners(GenCon, Stahleck, Spain, France, Italy, Kubla, etc) to form a special group each year. Maybe the Kingsguard or Small Council or Kingsmoot or something thematic from Martin's world. Give them equal billing and prize support. If you win a tournament of that size, you deserve credit. ~Maybe Black Friday can one day get that kind of turnout and prestige.

What I do find interesting is that so far this tournament season, the largest discussions have been the "collusion" discussion and the "World Champion" discussion, both ancillary to actually playing the game itself. Obviously what's happening in play isn't interesting enough to merit discussion. No "How do I meta against Martell" discussions or "What House gives me the best chance" discussions or "Wow, this deck type I've never seen before is really competetive" discussions. That makes me a sad panda. Nothing exciting must be happening in the tournaments themselves.