Considering the "Support" Ops cards, what happens if you pay for them and then fail the Contact roll? If the answer is "you lose your 4 command" then they are rather poor value.

Why does the Katusha Support only produce a Suppressive Attack when Nebelwerfers give an Area Attack? Or is this another misprint?

beresford said:

1.) No, you get to keep the card and can roll again to establish contact later on. As soon as you actaully fire (may drift!), that's when you normally discard the card. It's in the rules of the base game.

2.) Doesn't the Katyusha have a suppressive AREA attack?

1. The Basic Rules refer to Strategy cards, not Ops cards. And the Ops card is never discarded AFAIK.

2. Yes you are right. To use the correct terminology, they are all Area attacks but the Nebelwerfer gets a "Normal" attack whereas the Katusha only gets a "Suppressive" attack.

The rules for this are left a little open, (like others in FotB) we need an Updated FAQ for FotB.

We have been playing this by using the same concept as the strategy cards, we also pay the 4 command onto the operations card, then roll to make contact, if contact is not made then the 4 command stay on the card (can not be used anywhere else) and another attempt can be made in another round and once contact is made the 4 command are removed back to the storage box. this way the 4 command are tied up trying to make contact with the support but you dont lose 4 command everytime you dont make contact

Aussie_Digger said:

That is the way I play it, too. Otherwise these Ops cards would be too expensive for their effect.

KlausFritsch said:

The russian one still is!

The Reason the Nebelwerfer gets normal attack is the rockets are larger and more accurate. the Katyusha was used en masse to saturate an area. most Nebelwerfer launchers where tubes of 6, Katyusha launchers where usally 12 or more racks of rockets.

BJaffe01

Both these are nice ops cards, but the heavy mortar? Is it just me or does it seem like 4 wasted command?

I think the Heavy Mortar is a better card than the Katusha, it gives a better Suppressive Attack OR a Normal Attack in exchange for a poxy Suppressive Wide Blast Attack of 3.

If the card is to be believed, you don't determine Drift for the Heavy Mortar either

Re Bill's comment, if the Nebelwerfer gets a Normal Attack because it is dumping its payload more accurately then why does it get Wide Blast Radius (5) as well?

The extra spread is the explosive power of the larger shell's. like the spread for the Artillery cards with the extra supression likely represents 155mm and larger pieces

BJaffe01

Aussie_Digger said:

Actually what would make sense too (since it's after all an OP card!), is that you pay for it once and from then on it simply stays in play. You won't have to pay for it again., the only question being, will you actually establish contact on each of the turns? The more I think about it, the more convinced i am is that this is how the card is meant to be played, but yes, I agree, high time for a FAQ!!!!

More dependent on the number og tubes/rockets participating in the barrage.

Sorta Hefsgaard, Katyusha's usaly fired 12-18 rockets at once but they where small warheads 82mm or so. while Nebelwerfer's fired 100mm plus warheads hence the extra blast radius

BJaffe01

Kingtiger said:

This would make sense aswell, although it might make the card a liitle to cheap compared to comparable strategy cards for example Top priority barrage from arty deck 1or 2, contact is made on a 4, area attack 5, wide blast 3. where the nebelwerfer is contact 4, area attack 5, wide blast 5 and it costs 4 command for both cards. so i think having to pay 4 command for every time you make contact with the ops's cards is fair if anything they are a little better off as some are better attack values and once contact is made the card is not discarded and can be used again on another action phase. So if the rules regarding contact with straegy cards are applied to ops cards (minus the discard part) then I think the cards are about right for what you pay)

Bill is right about the Katyusha rockets too, Although the rockets could do some major physical damage (if they accually hit something) they were much more effective at phycological damge to the german soilder.

BJaffe01 said:

Which would imply that an artillery attack is only one shell? And thus that a single hex is less than the blastradius of a Nebelwerfer rocket?

It makes more sense to me that an artillery atack is a barrage, where Wide Area simply means that you have more tubes in the barrage and thus will cover a larger area.

Aussie_Digger said:

As I said: High time for a FAQ!

BTW, for what it's worth, I don't think the costs of any strategy card necessarily corresponds with its effect. I can't think of any specific examples off the top of my head, but quite often I've felt that either a card was too cheap or too expensive. Besides, often you get a few mortar squads. Combine them and the effect is bigger than any of the artillery cards (except for the wide balst radius, but you don't have to establish contact, determine drift etc.). These units are for "free".

I think it's supposed to work the way i described above, but the again, who knows...It's apparently too much work to compile a FAQ in say two hours of work...

I know what you mean about motars, I have always been of the opion that arty cards should always hit on 4,5,6 to make up for the low amount of dice rolled

But artellery gets the nice cards which reduces the cost. If you are lucky and get them early, artellery cards are either free or cheap.

Has anybody played twin villages from Design series I? In that scenario the US gets artellery I AND artellery II, and start with 4 cards, one which makes all artellery cards one cheaper. I guess its THE scenario to test to see if artellery can make a difference. I think it does.

But when that is said, I have allways irritated me about the difference between a single mortar and a double one. In some scenarios you get one mortar in each division, which I find realy stupid. the first thing anybody would do first round is to do a squad transfer to obtain one single double mortar. Then you get a far more deadly mortar squad, and you release 4 regular infanteri which normaly wouldn't do anything useful.

But yes, I would much rather have a two regular mortars than one heavy mortar...

Grand Stone the twin villiages is based on a historical incident where the American Artillery control officer responded to what the American unit called in on the radio. basically every gun within range was ordered to fire in support of the defenders. I don't have exact numbers but at least 70+ artillery tubes responded with fire.

BJaffe01

Aussie_Digger said:

Yes, or an operations card that would give each arty card X more dice (e.g. add the cost of the card). Mind you, I do think one should be very careful with a card like this (just like e.g. "Elite formations"). Some great rolls could really decide the outcome of the battle prematurely which is probably why the numbers we have now on the artillery cards have been kept rather low. However, I do feel that it just feels odd to have a regular double mortar squad that's simply much more effective than a heavy off-board artillery barrage. Would be a great solution to have an op-card like the one I described to up these numbers in certain circumstances.

BJaffe01 said:

Bill, could you possibly draw the FFG staff's attention to the fact that TOi players are in dire need of an FoTB FAQ? Apparently they do not seem to respond to queries of ours...

I can e-mail them also but no promises of anything happening faster i'm just a voice like all of you.

BJaffe01

BJaffe01 said:

Well, thanks anyway. You're one of their scenario designers, so perhaps they'd be more willing to oblige...