Spirit/Lore

(7) Eleanor
(8) Denethor
(10) Beravor

3 Wandering Took
3 Northern Tracker
3 The Galadhrim's Greeting
3 Hasty Stroke / Radagast's Cunning
1 Will of the West
3 A Test of Will / Secret Paths
3 Stand and Fight
3 Dwarven Tomb
1 Fortune or Fate
3 Unexpected Courage
3 Daughter of the Nimrodel
3 Erebor Hammersmith
3 Henemarth Riversong
3 Miner of the Iron Hills
3 Gleowine
3 Forest Snare
3 Protector of Lorien
3 Gandalf

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Spirit/Leadership

(8) Theodred
(9) Eowyn
(8) Dunhere

3 Wandering Took
3 Northern Tracker
3 The Galadhrim's Greeting
1 Will of the West
3 A Test of Will
3 Stand and Fight
3 Dwarven Tomb
3 Unexpected Courage
3 Faramir
3 Son of Arnor
3 Snowbourn Scout
3 Ever Vigilant
3 Sneak Attack
3 Valiant Sacrifice
1 Grim Resolve
3 Steward of Gondor
3 Celebrian's Stone
3 Gandalf

The main idea is to get the most powerful/needed cards early using Beravor + Unexpected Courage (+later Protector of Lorien shines)

Why I decided both decks need spirit? Because this means 6 Unexpected Courage, 6 Northern Tracker, ultimate Gandalf play and ultimate threat reduction.

Lore has the best team of allies overall. Great skills, great toughness, ok questers. No creature in Middle-earth is immune to Forest Snare. Quest pumps are really powerful as well.

Leadership gives tons of resources, the best late game quester (Faramir) and even more Gandalf play.

Thoughts ? Are those 2 the best combination overall for cooperative play ?

Aragorn at Theodred's place is a better choise.You already use 3 Celebrian's stone so use them to the max level.Aragorn+steward of Gondor+Celebrian's stone you can play every card you want even those with a high cost easier.

With Aragorn, starting threat 29 is bad and I prefer to simply have more resources. Total of 6 resources vs 7 recources, later it's 8 vs 9. Quicker Gandalf is the better Gandalf.

Throne goes to Eleanor, so it's 3 spirit resource vs 2 in the other deck, which is ok as long as Theodred can do his trick.

Also, Theodred can give resource to anyone (Lore, Spirit, Leadership) vs Aragorn's (Spirit, Leadership). So, even with a throne Aragorn is often weaker than Theodred.

Aragorn is a natural target for Unexpected Courage but he would have to compete for it with Beravor.. That's not even close.

avgzxc said:

29 starting threat in a 2 players game and both players use spirit is a joke.The last thing you have in mind with those 2 decks is threat.

Theodred gives you recourses if you exhauste him(that means one less hero for defence/attack) and even if he has unexpected courage his stats are bad and not even close to Aragorn's stats.

Unexpected courage is not a unique attachment.Both Aragorn and Beravor can have it so you don't have to choose which can have it.

If Theodred works better for you its ok but for me Aragorn>>>>>Theodred without second thought.

Hah, I was hoping for an excuse to post my decks! (Edit: this was an attempt to create the best decks I could without any players using any cards from the same spheres of influence as their partner)

Cards that I don't find myself using very often or to their fullest ability (or that are newly swapped in), will be in italics, signifying that I am highly open to suggestions for cards to replace them with (not that I'm not otherwise open to suggestions). These two decks are of course works in progress, but thus far I’ve had great success with all three scenarios using them played cooperatively. They were designed specifically to be as synergistic as possible, and I find that this makes them very interdependent. At the same time, however, they each have very specific, independent goals, and are highly specialized. I think that each deck is very efficient at doing what it was designed to do, but you are very welcome to arrive at your own conclusion. Here they are:

Major Leadership / Minor Tactics “Tanking” Deck (50 cards)

The point of this deck is primarily to eliminate Enemies engaged with either player, as well as to generate resources for the other deck and to contribute some questing/exploring progress thanks to Legolas and Blade of Gondolin(s).

Heroes (Starting Threat = 26)
Theodred (because Aragorn makes starting Threat 30, which would be very bad for Journey Down the Anduin, and Theodred is useful for generating resources for the other deck's Spirit or Lore heroes as necessary, or simply making extra resources for himself)
Gloin (Try to get him reliable healing as soon as possible so he can reliably defend and perpetually generate extra resources)
Legolas (high attack strength, ranged, with a great ability)

Allies
Faramir x2 (to help the other deck quest more efficiently and to be used with Grim Resolve)
Guard of the Citadel x3
Silverlode Archer x3 (ranged)
Son of Arnor x3 (useful for pulling enemies out of the staging area during scenario 2, "rescuing" the other deck, etc)
Snowbourne Scout x3
Gondorian Spearman x3
Veteran Axehand x3
Gandalf x3

Attachments
Celebrian’s Stone x2 (typically played on Eowyn in the other deck, who is almost always questing)
Steward of Gondor x3 (probably best used on a Spirit hero in the other deck, as once Lore has played reliable healing their resources become far less important)
Blade of Gondolin x3 (meant to be played on Legolas to enhance his ability/attack strength, or on Dunhere in the other deck)
Dwarven Axe x2 (most likely to be played on Dunhere in the other deck, so he can one-shot certain enemies in the staging area like Wargs)
Horn of Gondor x2 (to be played on Legolas, or maybe Beravor in the other deck, as necessary)

Events
For Gondor! x2 (this was recently swapped in, I've yet to be really impressed by it but I can see it being very useful)
Grim Resolve x2 (expensive, but typically a quest stage finisher and Leadership often ends up with a surplus of resources anyways)
Sneak Attack x3
Valiant Sacrifice x3
Feint x3 (very good for eating the initial Hill Troll or Nazgul of Dol Guldur's attack before Forest Snare can be played)
Quick Strike x2 (I just swapped these in because I found myself never using Blade Mastery x2, so I'm not sure how good this is yet)

Major Spirit / Minor Lore “Utility” Deck (50 cards)

The point of this deck is initially to play reliable healing for Gloin in the other deck, or in the case of Scenario 2, to dig for a Forest Snare to throw on the Hill Troll. This deck focuses on managing Treachery and Location cards revealed from the Encounter Deck, and Dunhere is very useful for taking care of some of the enemies that engage in an "unconventional" way, such as Goblin Snipers and Wargs. This deck is also meant to be a questing powerhouse.

Heroes (Starting Threat = 27)
Dunhere (because I never found myself using Elanor's ability, and he's great for scenario 2)
Eowyn (a questing monster)
Beravor (for massive card generation, either to dig for cards like Forest Snare or Self Preservation, or to help the other deck draw cards when it finds itself with far more resources than cards in hand)

Allies
Northern Tracker x3 (everyone loves this card, and everyone knows why. Play it as soon as possible)
Wandering Took x3 (I recently swapped these in to replace 3x Lorien Guide, as the guides are more expensive and don't play well with Northern Trackers)
Daughter of the Nimrodel x2
Gleowine x2
Henamarth Riversong x2
Miner of the Iron Hills x2 (because Caught in a Web really hurts dual-sphere decks)
Gandalf x3

Attachments
The Favor of the Lady x3 (to be played on Eowyn, who is almost always questing)
Unexpected Courage x3 (to be played on either Beravor or Legolas, depending upon need)
Dark Knowledge x2 (just recently swapped these in, I figure with them I can maximize resources safely generated by Gloin)
Forest Snare x3
Self Preservation x3 (put on Gloin ASAP)

Events
A Test of Will x3
Dwarven Tomb x3 (maybe 3 is too much? I don't see this card played a lot, but the potential is fantastic)
Fortune or Fate x2 (this card is debatable. Not often used, but either deck could potentially fail if a key hero dies.)
Hasty Stroke x3
Stand and Fight x3 (I don't see this card played much... at all, really, but the potential is fantastic)
Strength of Will x3
The Galadhrim’s Greeting x2 (great card, maybe I could add 1 more if I take out 1 Dwarven Tomb)

servant of the secret fire said:

No, the joke is 30 threat and Eastern Crows - Surge, Eastern Crows - Surge, 2nd Troll

Why would I play UC on Theodred? All UC goes to Beravor (4, even 5). Maybe 1 on Denethor or 1-2 on Dunhere. In extreme case, on Eleanor but never on Theodred.

And of course, Theodred >>> Aragorn.

Good cards are expensive and Theodred helps with that. Aragorn just wastes 1 resource which could be spent more productively. Mass UC on Beravor draw a lot of cards and it's so nice to actually play them sooner than later ( sometimes later means too late )

-------------------------------------------------

As I understand, the above decks are made from 2 sets with no proxing is allowed. (I did some "litte" proxing with mine)

Gloin, him I miss the most in my decks.

IMO, with geared up Legolas Quick Strike is often almost as good as Feint.

I'd focus more on all Lore allies. They are just too good. So, I think it's good to add 2 Erebor Hammersmith (they recycle Forest Snare and can survive 4 damage attack) and drop 2 Dark Knowledge.

Also, I'd drop 2 For Gondor and put 2 Ever Vigilant and use them on Faramir/Gandalf when the time comes. Faramir + Ever Vigilant is quite useful on the River.

avgzxc said:

In 2 rounds you have so many ways to kill/avoid troll you don't even have to think about the troll.Forest snare,Galadrim greetings,Gandalf with those cards you just laugh wen you see the troll.

Lose a hero (you said that you don't use UC on Theodred) for just get a resource token for me is a bad strategy.With Aragorn and steward of Gondor you have more resources than you need and a hero with stats like Aragorn's is way better than only one reource.So with Aragorn you quest with 4 will power and with Theodred with 3.Then you can use Aragorn as defender (he has 2defence) or attacker (he has 3 attack) or both with UC and with Theodred you can't do anything.You have allready commited Eowyn to quest and you have only Dunhere who is very weak in defence.I just can't see how Theodred is better than Aragorn.

Anyway we both have a different opinion about those 2 and we must stop now cause this is going to last for days.

Yeah, you can survive with 2 rounds but still the probabilities of getting the needed stuff on time differ a lot. Now, we just need to analize probabilities of each encounter deck vs probabilities of countering them... Hmmm, maybe you're right that discussion would go for days.

I don't use UC on Theodred because it doesn't make sense. Why? Because you don't use Theodred like you use Aragorn, lol. If you want to play Theodred the same way you play Aragorn then of course he would be weaker. Why? Because using Theodred the same way like you use Aragorn doesn't make sense. 1 resource of choice and 1 will is the "only" thing he is good for. Does it make him weak? Well, the fact that he can give resource to any alignment makes makes him easily the strongest hero.

Let's theoretize. 10 turns period. Aragorn accumulates 10 resource, Theodred accumulates 20 resource. Let's buy allies: Aragorn provided 5 Tooks, Theodred provided 5 Trackers. Aragorn = poor and therefore weak. Theodred = rich and therefore strong.

UC is supposed to be used on heroes that actually are good and I agree Aragorn is an ok UC user.

Aragorn + UC > Glorfindel + UC: Similar stats but Aragorn has Sentinel.

Aragorn + UC < Gimli + UC: Similar stats + Sentinel but Gimli's attack is off the chart.

The above 3 heroes are weaker UC users than: Legolas (2 attacks, up to (2+1+1)*2 = 8 progress), Dunhere (2 attacks), Denethor(peak, defence) and Beravor (ultimate ownage).

Gloin owns with UC, or is average. It depends on how well and how often he is healed.

@avgzxc

My decks were made with 3 Core sets, without using any proxies. Even though I'll be primarily playing two-player games, I really only want to own 3 copies of every card, which will allow me to nevertheless make two unique dual-sphere decks that are able to combine cards from all four spheres while maintaining "unlimited" construction options (aside from the restriction I put on myself). So unless I meet someone else who happens to have their own set of cards, I probably won't be doing any sphere duplicating between players (because I really don't want to buy another 3 Core sets and 2 copies of every future expansion).

I think it's very funny that you suggest replacing the 2x Dark Knowledge with 2x Erebor Hammersmith, because guess which two cards I swapped out to test Dark Knowledge? And I do think you're right about that, I've yet to really get any "life or death" use out of Dark Knowledge. Situationally handy, yes, but Erebor Hammersmith is just so good for 2 resources. I think I'll swap them back in.

Ever Vigilant is a very good idea, I had never really stopped to think about it's utility with Gandalf, and Faramir being able to trigger his ability multiple times in one phase could be extremely powerful. I'll definitely have to try that out.

Lightdarker:

Not sure if you've caught this or not, but you mention attaching cards to other player's heroes. That's a no go, you can only play your cards into your own play area per the rulebook, unless a specific card effect overrules it.

CAlexander said:

"When a player plays an attachment card, he has the
option of giving control of that card to another player
by attaching the card to one of that player’s characters.
Players always assume control of attachments that
have been played on their characters. If control of
that character changes, so does the control of any
attachments on that character." (p. 25)

CAlexander said:

Kidding?

CAlexander said:

You can only play Allies in your own play area. That's the only card-type with that restriction.

I never caught that, interesting. As I've only played solo games so far aside from 1 or 2 instances it hasn't been important. Also, the rulebook contradicts itself as I was actually quoting the rulebook:

Page 12 "After a player plays an ally or attachment card from his hand, he places it faceup and ready in his play area."

Obviously (due to the page 25 quote) this is contradicted by instances when you are playing attachments on the other players characters. Very unintuitive, but opens up some interesting strategies.

Most attachments make no sense to trade, but sometimes I put the Axe or something on the wrong character and wish they could.

"Legolas, give me that axe so I can finish off the Hill Troll!"

"I don't think so, Gimli."

Yes. In Decipher Lotr trading card game you can replay attachment form 1 hero to another by paying thecost of attachment again.

In this lotr card game there is nothing about this in rulebook. Maybe you can do???Maybe not? It change game process a lot.

For the Spirit/Leadership deck, it would be best to put Aragorn in as well as one other Leader Hero and one Spirit Hero. That way, if Celebrian's Stone is played on Aragorn, you can use his pool to purchase either Spirit or Leadership cards. Also, playing the Steward of Gondor on Aragorn will allow for the greatest use of resources.

Glaurung said:

so far you can't re-equip attachments...