An idea I've got for a Rogue Trader campaign is to take several humans who have gained immortality (via different means) and throw the players into the mix just as the immortals plans are coming into conflict. I just need a bit of help with the specifics.

What are the immortals after ?
I'm thinking of having some mcguffin that all of them are after. Though I need some ideas. It needs to be something important enough for them to want to find, but not important enough to attract attention that makes the players useless. For example, if the mcguffin is a mostly functional STC, I don't see the players being able to do much once the Calixis sector Ad-mech hear about it and send fleets to retrieve it. And I'm planning to have them find out what the mcguffin is well before they find it.

I also have some questions about some of the immortality methods:

<The Biomancer>
Looking at the biomancer powers in Dark Heresy, it seems that preventing their body ageing would be the easy part of becoming immortal that way. The hard parts being avoiding corruption or death from phenomena. But lets say that a psyker did manage to live that long and remain pure through a combination of skill and luck:
- Which groups would treat the psyker significantly differently to how they would treat a regular psyker ?
- What would the psyker have to go with to prove that she was still pure ?
- Would she be able to become an Inquisitor ?
- Would any of the above answers change if she made Inquisitor before the immortality became obvious ?

<The Tech-Priest>
As a general rule, the higher someone’s rank within the Ad-Mech, the less flesh they have. To the point where they are part of a brain in a jar, with a purely mechanical body. So for this method of immortality, the person in question has gone one step further and replaced his entire brain with circuits.
- Is this over the line into "definitely an AI" in the eyes of the Ad-Mech or does it still exist in a grey area ?
- Assuming he avoids auspex scans*, how long will it take for the Ad-Mech to notice that he has lived for far too long and start asking questions ?
- If he doesn't cause trouble and keeps turning over useful things he finds, will they care ?
- Since his mind is now data on a computer, he can upload himself into a new body when the first one fails. What happens to his soul when he does ?
- What if a pre-made backup is loaded instead ?
- What if he copies himself into multiple bodies at a time ?
- Can this be done with existing Imperium technology, or would he have to use Archeo/Xeno tech ?

*Why should I see you in person when we can have the same communication over Vox, without having to worry about making sure we don't kill each other, or wasting time travelling that I could use for my works. ?
If you're worried about being spied on, I can get a servitor to run a hard line that won't be intercepted. Also, my holds are auspex shielded because I don't want anyone stealing my secrets.

<Dark Pact>
Someone makes a pact with a daemon. In return: Immortality. I have an idea where I'm going with this one, but I would still appreciate any ideas about non-stereotypical worshippers of one of the chaos gods that could work here.

<Halo Device>
I've got no questions about this one.

Are there any other ways are there for a human to gain immortality that allows them to be active in the materium ?

Ascension to daemonhood/daemon prince doesn't count, because they exist mainly in the warp, not the materium.

Stasis pods/SM Dreadnoughts/Cryo-sleep don't count as the recipient spends most of their time inactive.

Hi there,

I do not have hard & fast answer based on rules section. Most of the following is mainly about "feeling".

@The immortal Biomancer
I think their for "immortality", their are just to many chances to gather corruption to say that s/he is not "soul-rotten to the core". But this does not need to be bad, does it? S/he could have been Inquisitor a long long time ago,,, then disappeared. Still owning a Rosetta. His/her actually retinue could have been recruited from different colonies across the Expanse... most them not old enough to know about this immortality (Inqs are known to use age-treatments, like any of the heigh and hauty of the Imperium. They might expect this Biomancer to be about 200 or 300 years...not knowing that s/he is much older then that....

If the =I= would find out (or have found out), somebody will hunt the Biomancer. Perhaps a "Cabal" (see DH core) of two to three Inquisitors.

@The Mechanicus Magos
He would for sure better avoid his brethern! Such technique is heretek and part of the horrors of the DarkAge of Technology. I am sure. But again, since your are in the Expanse it is pretty hard to make accurate identiy-checks. It is not like you have easy access to actual data, do you? A good guys might help.
The "copy process" could/would go along with damage. Every copy does. He would be less and less the orginal, perhaps growing a little bit more insane with any/every copy. Thereby, "simultane copies" could be different..and differ in opinion. Perhaps turn on one another after a time. Or go different ways.

@The Device
...I am not sure if it grants immortalitly in any other state but the "Monsterous Stage"... I am not sure if this is helpful....

@The Dark Pact
Hmm... so, you do not wish for any Stereotypes. So, no soul-drinking wizzards , no ever-rotting worshippers of Nurgle, no life-leeching succubi of Slaanesh, no bloodrinking masters of Slaughter hailing Khorne........hmm........tricky...

How about a Chaos Wizzard close to Daemonhood? He might have rid himself of the need for a body and only exists as spirit, taking over new bodies (possession rules) as the old one dies/falter/mutates/get to damaged to use? Perhaps he needs rituals for this to keep the majority of his powers, but in an emergency, he could use possesion rules (but loosing some of his wisdom and sorcerers power...which he would need about a decade or so to rebuild).

What would a renegade Tech-Priest, a Halooite, a Chaos Worshipper and a Biomancer would have in common regarding their wish-lists?

Good question. Perhaps something none of them knows for sure what it is?

Perhaps all of them knows of something mentioned as "the Angel" in acient imperial textes.

The Tech-Priest believes it to be a sentient machine...something he wants to learn about so he can better his own copy-process
The Halooite...only knows that it is some artifact of great power and wants to have it
The Chaosworshipper believes it is a bio-crafted golem he wants to use as his new host (dreaming of unsurpassed power and a lasting body)
The Biomancer (a Xantithe or Oblationist) believes it to be a threat to the Imperium which needs to be destroyed

The Sensei , old canon immortal descendants of the Emperor, might be something for you to look into.

Other ideas for immortality:

Dark Age of Technology level nanotech. Think the great-grandaddy of autosanguine. Keeping the body in superb condition through the ages, perhaps assisted by an equally ancient and effective version of Juvenat drugs. The immortal in question might *remember* the DAoT, depending on how they cope with the millennia of memories in a human frame.

Xeno-human hybrid. The corruption of the Holy form of Mankind with xeno genes or organs. But potentially effective if you seek immortality with no thought for consequences. Better immune systems, longevity, memory, all there for the taking. If the transpecies surgeries or gene-fixing goes all to plan that is.

Bilateralrope said:

Maybe the Ad-Mech already have made a gambit for the macguffin, and got put down - but hard - by one or more of the immortals. They still want the macguffin, just like everyone else, but have decided that a more subtle infiltration/recon approach is in order, to better understand the forces arrayed against them. Hence the involvement of the Inquisition and the PCs. They might also be thinking of the mission as a likely suicide effort, which would be another reason to use manpower from a different branch of the Imperium.

Bilateralrope said:

Assuming there's nothing immediately obvious about the biomancer as a result of the immortality psionics, I don't see why anyone would treat her differently in the short term. Even a few years probably isn't long enough for most people to realize she's especially long-lived. Other psykers might be able to detect something amiss, though. Depending on how obvious you want the immortality effect to be to other psykers, they might be curious, unsettled or downright terrified of unusual elements they detect in her.

If no one knows she's using psionics to make herself immortal, she generally wouldn't need to prove her purity to anyone, unless they figured out her secret. Depending on how pure she REALLY is, her "defense" might consist of making those people disappear before they can tell anyone else. I think there's a lot of potential with this character to have her actually be quite corrupt, but to give her a philosophy that defends the idea that she's still pure.

Becoming an inquisitor would probably make it easier for her to eliminate troublesome nosey people who discover her secret, but it might also subject her to more stringent examinations to ensure she's not corrupted by Chaos, which might in turn make keeping her secret harder. There's certainly little, if anything, that would prevent another inquisitor from coming after her if sufficient evidence of corruption - or potential corruption - came to light, so perhaps becoming an inquisitor would be more trouble than it's worth for her. Depends on her personality and how willing she is to take risks in the name of power.

Bilateralrope said:

I would think that once his entire body was mechanical it would definitely cross the line into heretical technology. If he's powerful enough within the organization and keeps himself secluded from most others (a stereotypical old hermit recluse type) then he might be able to get by unfettered, but he would definitely need to be careful who he interacted with directly. Perhaps his influence is only ever felt through minions doing his bidding (perhaps even minions connected to him via some kind of wireless network link in their brains, so it's like he's the mastermind of a hive network of techno-goons.

I suspect the Ad-Mech as an organization would want him dead, just for policy if not for genuine outrage, but again, if he keeps to himself and only interacts with the organization through minions and trusted friends, they might not care to dig deep enough to realise the extent of his heresy. Especially if he keeps providing them with useful tech.

Of course, if this guy is really so thick with the Ad-Mech, it would kind of invalidate any other plans they were making to find the macguffin. If he gets it, he would presumably turn it over to them (or at least if they know he's in the field they might expect him to.) This would work well as an explanation for why the Ad-Mech aren't involved if you dislike the idea above about them hiring the PCs indirectly.

Bilateralrope said:

That is a question only you can answer.

Bilateralrope said:

This can all probably be done with existing Imperial tech. It would definitely be heretical though.

Bilateralrope said:

Maybe a Tau-follower has been experimenting with their tech to develop immortality? The Tau aren't as phobic of tech as the Imperium, so such a person could probably co-exist in Tau society without being outcast, especiall if he keeps it on the DL (just to be safe.) Such a character could have immortality by just about any means you can imagine. Tech implants, chemical serum, philosophical enlightenment, etc. I kind of like the serum idea myself, especially since you can write it off as not working on Tau physiology to prevent all the Tau in the sector from becoming immortal. Hell, maybe it kills 98% of humans injected, just to keep it limited to him and maybe a few minions.

A generstealer hybrid with some new mutation that provides immortality, or at least extremely long life, and who also happens to look mostly human. With or without the support network of a genestealer cult. Operating well apart from any actual Tyranid fleet, as genestealers are wont to do.

A lone necron frame (perhaps possessed by the Tech Priest and his cybernetic consciousness) could make for an interesting encounter.

Well over here http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp?efid=159&efcid=3&efidt=354998&efpag=2 The Knight of Dark Renown suggested this:

Soul-Forge: An ancient device in the form of a 4 meter tall, 3 meter diameter cylindrical capsule which can perform advanced cellular regeneration and replacement - basically a super Juvenat machine - the fountain of eternal youth and life! Unfortunately, it does require 'fuel' of sorts... other, fresher cellular material. For some reason virgins work best, maybe due to lack of contamination?? I would make it require massive amounts of energy and a series of very difficult extended skill tests for both Medicae and Tech Use (and maybe others).
Successful use of this device could be bad enough (maybe the rejuv wears off too soon and needs more and more frequent refreshing?)
Failed rolls could have any number of effects
> It could be as mundane as aging the subject instead of rejuvenating them
> killing them outright
> grossly mutating them
> hideously melding the subject and the 'fuel'
> appearing to work beautifully execpt that the mental patterns of the fuel source were transferred into the rejuvenated subject during the cellular rejuvenation of the brain
> And of course, if the wrong source material were used, that's where the GM can get really creative, effectively introducing any fantastical type of creature imaginable, Half-Eldar, Half-Orks, Half-Slaught!!! and, my favourite, Chaos Beastmen - or "Joinings" as I prefer to call them ;-)
Heretical as all hell once the exact workings were discovered, but think of how much a Noble or a Rogue Trader would be willing to pay for the promise of everlasting youth!

I wouldn't go for virgin angle so much, the fact that it needs to be loaded with fresh bio matter (people) for fuel is pretty sinister in itself. What I realy like about this option is it could be a 'regular' person using it.

The Ad-Mech guy would be able to get away with it by using the administration to create false identities and then assume one when he felt it was time to 'move on' so to speak. It would be really easy if you had organisational power and all the time in the world. An even more ruthless solution would be to assume the identieis of flunkies.

I have always thought that being immortal would be a curse though. Imagine seeing everything you cared about die, and eventually not even being able to remeber that you cared? As such I always thought that immortals would be somewhat maudlin, and probably quite insane, and I woulds suggest incorporating these concepts of madness, sadness and loss into (at least some of) the immortals.

Enjoy.

The forum doesn't say this thread has unread messages. Annoying.

--Gregorius21778--

>>I think their for "immortality", their are just to many chances to gather corruption to say that s/he is not "soul-rotten to the core".

True. But at the same time, there are ways to purge the corruption. And for a biomancer who has enough control to halt ageing, reversing any physical effects of that treatment seems possible.

>>He would for sure better avoid his brethern! Such technique is heretek and part of the horrors of the DarkAge of Technology. I am sure.

If he lives suspisiously long, but keeps returning useful finding from outside the Imperium, will the Ad-Mech care enough to ask questions ?
After all, he could be really fast at finding things but unlucky enough to keep getting stuck in the warp.

>>...I am not sure if it grants immortalitly in any other state but the "Monsterous Stage"... I am not sure if this is helpful....

My plan is that the user of the halo device is part of a rival dynasty. Only a few know he exists, and most think he is a xeno advisor whos advise and combat prowess is well worth the cost of his habbits.

Especially when they release him on a planet so they can later show up to "save" the population from him.

>>Hmm... so, you do not wish for any Stereotypes.
I'm just trying to avoid the major steyrotypes of their personality. No axe crazy Khornite, no sex crazed Slaanash follower, etc.
Preferably someone obsessed with one of the lesser used aspects of their god, while thinking they are doing the right thing for the Imperium.

The body jumper is an interesting idea.

--Steve-O--

>>Maybe the Ad-Mech already have made a gambit for the macguffin, and got put down - but hard - by one or more of the immortals.

The plan is that the Ad-Mech have decided that the macguffin isn't worth sending anything more than the Explorator fleet they sent out with the Heretek. If any of the Ad-Mech know, they are radical enough to ignore it as he is out there and they benefit from their denial.

Remember that while these immortals don't age, and can be rather powerful in combat, they can still die to sufficient firepower. Their power comes from the influence their immoratality has allowed them to build.

>>Depending on how obvious you want the immortality effect to be to other psykers, they might be curious, unsettled or downright terrified of unusual elements they detect in her.

My plan is that her using her powers to prevent ageing is something that many skilled biomancers are capable of. What makes her unique is that she has survived/avoided the things that end up killing them.

>>If no one knows she's using psionics to make herself immortal, she generally wouldn't need to prove her purity to anyone, unless they figured out her secret.

Sooner or later someone will notice that she should have died of old age by now and start asking questions. Are there any answers she can give that will attract less trouble than the truth ?

Assume that the person asking is powerful enough that removing them will attract too much attention.

About the other immorality options:

- Sensei: I don't think I could fit one in as an antagonist, especially not one the players will not kill once he/she starts messing with their investments, but a Sensei could work as a macguffin.

- Dark Age of Technology level nanotech/Xeno-human hybrid/Tau Tech/Soul Forge: They could work, but I have no idea where to start building a character around them.

- Xeno-human hybrid: What are the long-lived Xeno races in 40k ?

- A generstealer hybrid: I want the immortal characters to have started human.

>>I have always thought that being immortal would be a curse though. Imagine seeing everything you cared about die, and eventually not even being able to remeber that you cared? As such I always thought that immortals would be somewhat maudlin, and probably quite insane, and I woulds suggest incorporating these concepts of madness, sadness and loss into (at least some of) the immortals.

I will be working with this. I can't say much more, as I don't want to risk my players reading this.

Bilateralrope said:

"I will be working with this. I can't say much more, as I don't want to risk my players reading this".

Tell your players reading the Gamemaster Forum is heresy.

ZAP ZAP ZAP! (invest in a cattle prod, they're not too old to be retrained)

and also said:

" Dark Age of Technology level nanotech/Xeno-human hybrid/Tau Tech/Soul Forge: They could work, but I have no idea where to start building a character around them".

How about a dodgy Rogue Trader who assumes the identity of their grand children. Or the Governor of an out of the way orbital or station? Or a Pirate with a high crew turn over. Or a shadowy underworld boss with no public identity? If you keep it strictly DAOTechnology based you don't have the complicaitons of being lost to corruption (but maybe madness yes), and that way it doesn't conflict themeatically with you using the Dark Pact option for another one of the immortals.

Now Immortal-wise...are the Space Marines not immortal? I know it was touched upon in the Horus Heresy as in they hadn't aged since becoming Space Marines. A Space Marine Chapter Master could be one such.

Also in aaahh Legion? The Cabal had agents who were immortal and had in fact died many times, but were always brought back. The one who had been helping them at the end of the book decided to try to die for the last time once helping corrupt the Alpha Legion.

Or a Time Traveller. This way you could have a regular person, who appeared to outside observers to be effectively immortal, but isn't. There are many ways of doing this, from actual time machines with funky names like 'The Varkis' (this could be difficult for a GM though) through to something lower powered but just as cool like a 'Time Tourist' who uses suspended animation devices to spend (e.g.) one year in every ten awake, and uses anti aging drugs during that year. To an outside observer this would appear to be immortal (or close to it) without having to stretch player disbelief too much.

Wake up, and spend a year or so checking on your investments/retainers/colonies/wars/plots/etc, funnelling funds to trust endowments financing secretive research cabals and intelligence groups, check on your competitors, and put new or modified plans into action.

Just NO I repeat NO Sonic Screwdrivers please.

A mutant? Not necessarily anything else other than immortal, he could still age completely normally and be quite physically infirm being quite sickly but playing the roll of a mastermind. You could have him be in his prime or any other age forever but being suceptible to damage as much as the next man, leaving him with a bionic or two and a cautious nature. Or he could have ludicruous levels of regeneration, to the point where he isn't sure if he can die, maybe he suspects that the Angel could be a device that can kill him and wants it destroyed. Alternately for one of the immortals maybe the angel is the only way they can die, tired of life they just want an end after many millenia.

There is also possibly and immortal in the Calyxis sector who might be interested, the possibly is because he doesn't know how old he is and has problems with his memory but maybe he dimly remembers this Angel from years gone by and thinks its important to him. He's detailed in Creatures Anathema if you want a look.

Well any ork character is immortal, and they already have rules for that. If you read into the storm it touches up on the subject saying if orks don't die from foolhardy, battle, or some other event, then they will continue to grow and grow. Though the chances of an ork actually living for a long time, are like .0005% and it has yet to be done.

That does leave the Xeno Hybrid approach, but who wants to be half Ork?

On the DAoT human, why does any human want anything? If they've lived continuously since the DAoT, that's a minimum of 17,000 years ( timeline ). Even with warp travel time dilation, that is a huge chunk of time. If they're still around, they obviously still want something if only an impressive oblivion. Perhaps the technology won't let them die. A human-made equivalent of the halo device that has tied their very molecules together at the quantum level or some such technospeak.

Orks and eldar can reach impressive ages. I can't recall immortal races but if nothing else, there is scope for a custom race. Perhaps one that is now lost to the galaxy bar some genes lodged in the character (they may have even been responsible for such).

Instead of just a dark pact or ancient/heretical technology why not mix the two? The immortals could use a heretical warp-device that using energy drawn from a trapped demon sustains the immortal while at the same time protects them from coruption. The device iteslf of course would slowly become more and more damned to the point where any who touch it would instantly suffer horrifying mutation and it could also be the immortals weak point. If the demon is freed then the immortal would die from instant aging, being dragged instantly into the warp or the demon would hunt his former jailor for vengence. Making the device look cool would be a must, and it would probably be well hidden, either in deep space or at the bottom of some ocean far away from the immortal so he could keep others from knowing his weakness and ensure the entities indefinate enslavement.

More immortal concepts:

The Myriad - a human who used highly illegal cortex enhancements and biological implants that synthesise spook to inhabit the bodies of a number of vat grown bodies with a small and locaslised hive mind. When a body is starting to wear out, or out of fashion, or just old, the Myriad discards it and adopts a new one. None of the original bodies still survive, and these days the Myriad rarely bothers with the vats, when it sees a new body it likes, it just has half a dozen of its puppets 'collect' it and forcibly implant it with the machinery that interface it with the Myriad.

The Chrono-damned - An ancient xenos creature that even the ancient Eldar claim to precede their race. Whilst this creature was once peaceful, a font of wisdom for whomever sought it out, it long ago realised that it is aging backwards and that it will meet its death within the next five millenia. Panicking, the creatures noble soul was corrupted by fear, and the Chrono-damned began to devote its time to discovering some science, religion or power that could stop its inevitable demise. It has barganed with foul gods, ripped secrets from the tombs of creatures that were old and dying before most of the galaxies stars had ignited, formed a thousand cults, all to no avail. Now it has barely a millenia left to exist and is willing to go to any lengths to extend its span yet further.

So what will these suggested immortals want with the macguffin ? (I'm still open to more suggestions about what the macguffin does, so change it to fit your immortal)

I want each immortal to want it for a different reason.

With my current plan:

- The macguffin is a powerful xeno device, built by the species that built the immorality halo devices. I have an idea about what it does, but won't reveal more in public.

- The biomancer, being an Inquisitor, wants to destroy it, or at least store it away.

- The heretek wants to use it for the good of the Imperium. He knows how much xeno-tech the Imperium really uses.

- The dark pact guy wants to use it in a way that he thinks will be good for the Imperium. But, given how lost he is to chaos, it will not be as good as he expects. Even if everything goes to his plan.

- The Halo device wearer is using it to further the plans of the race that built the halo devices.

Looking at the other immortal beings:

The Chrono-damned : I can see why this would want the macguffin, as the macguffin might lengthen its lifespan. But I'd prefer to avoid immortals who didn't start human.

The Myriad : Why would the Myriad even be out in the expanse ?
Attracting the attention of other immortals is just asking to be attacked.
What would it want with the macguffin ?

>> Instead of just a dark pact or ancient/heretical technology why not mix the two?
I don't see anything that a mix adds.

>> Or he could have ludicruous levels of regeneration, to the point where he isn't sure if he can die,
Why hasn't the immortal tried to chuck himself into a star or black hole yet ?
If he has, how did he get back out ?
I'm not sure if I like the idea of a creature of the materium that won't die to an orbital strike.

>> Or a Time Traveller.
Not active enough.

>> Now Immortal-wise...are the Space Marines not immortal?
It doesn't matter if they age or not, sooner or later they will die in battle or become a dreadnought. But if one does survive for a suspisiously long time and the suspision it brings from the Inquisition, he is still a Space Marine. I can pull Space Marines in without needing one of them to be immortal.

On the question of black holes, it might be a matter of fear. What if it doesn't kill him but he can't escape? While it *might* work, it might equally keep him in a state of torture indefinately.

My suggestion for the Angel is a piece of the Old One's sorcerous technology, one sufficient to reshape reality to the whim of its user. Of course, this was intended to be used by a race with great psychic power and stable mindset...

I really like Professor Kylan's 'Chrono Damned', nicely done.

The McGuffin (this is a new term to me) could be the Tyrant Star. As far as I'm aware nothing has been written about what it actually is. Perhaps all the nastiness associated with it could just be a side effect. Has anyone read 'Excession' by the great Iian M. Banks? The 'phenomenon' came back after thousands of years and everyone wanted it even though no one really knew what it was. ll they knew was that it was obviously beyond the capabilities of any of the main players in the Galactic scene. True excellent high stakes space opera with awesome ships and characters (some of the characters are ships).

Bilateralrope said:

How closely does this person follow her movements? Assuming they aren't attached at the hip (in which case they're probably trustworthy enough to be told the truth) she could claim to have been travelling aorund in the Warp and had decades (or even centuries) pass by before her ship got back to realspace. That would probably work at least once or twice. Considering how long it would have to be for someone to stop and think "you know, she's been kicking around for 60 years now, she should really have a grey hair or two," the odds are that any single person will probably die themselves before they get around to asking her that question twice (unless they are also immortal, of course.)

The real problem there will come in the form of generational relationships - ie: a family she's worked with whose grandson will begin to wonder how she could have helped his granddaddy and still be so youthful today. The obvious solution from her perspective would be to avoid such relationships as much as possible. If she does find herself needing to maintain ties with a family across generations, she should use aliases and minions. A little make-up and the occasional fake ID could see her pretending to be her own daughter every 20-30 years to avoid such questions. She'd need to really careful about DNA-scanners and such, though.

Perhaps a more pertinent question to ask yourself is this - how likely do you think it is that the PCs will ask this question in game? If this woman is being propped up and a powerful and highly influential opponent, odds are they'll be more focused on how to bring her down than in how she has survived all this time. ("Wait, she's like 5,000 years old? But she still bleeds to death, right? Okay, boltgun it is.") Don't get me wrong, I appreciate attention to detail, too, but as a GM myself I find that I really need to draw lines about how much detail I write that the PCs will never see.

Bilateralrope said:

Maybe it DID start human. Maybe it encountered the device once before, and the result of that encounter was that it got sent back in time, altered at the genetic level such that it aged backwards and its lifespan was extended to a ludicrous degree. Maybe the reason it knows it will die soon is because it knows the macguffin is once again coming into proximity. Hell, maybe this is the time when it first encountered the macguffin.

Maybe the chrono-damned is actually one of the PCs who doesn't know what's about to happen when he finds this thing. Dun dun DUN! You can also alter its appearance so the PC won't recognize himself at first.

Bilateralrope said:

As long as his enemies don't realize he's one of a multitude of networked bodies, being attacked isn't really a big deal. So one body dies, who cares?

It might want the macguffin to improve the tech it uses to create this network, or it might simply want to destory the thing to stop other people from becoming immortal (the true threat ot itself is someone putting together enough information to figure out how to kill the Myriad permanently. Immortals have the lifespan to eventually figure that out, as well as a built-in motive to destroy it - to keep they're own immortality secret and/or secure.)

Bilateralrope said:

Space Marines are extremely long-lived, to the tune of a couple thousand years assuming they don't die in combat, but they aren't literally immortal. Dreadnoughts might be (assuming the machinery is maintained) but I would imagine they're also kept on a pretty tight leash when not in combat. It would be hard for one to get away from the Chapter long enough to have its own glory schemes in the Calixis sector.

I suppose one could go renegade and leave the chapter entirely, but it would hunted down pretty agressively. It would basically need to become a recluse and work through minions to avoid being detected, which puts it pretty close to the same thing as the tech-priest character with a slightly different origin story.

Steve-O:

>> Perhaps a more pertinent question to ask yourself is this - how likely do you think it is that the PCs will ask this question in game? If this woman is being propped up and a powerful and highly influential opponent, odds are they'll be more focused on how to bring her down than in how she has survived all this time. ("Wait, she's like 5,000 years old? But she still bleeds to death, right? Okay, boltgun it is.") Don't get me wrong, I appreciate attention to detail, too, but as a GM myself I find that I really need to draw lines about how much detail I write that the PCs will never see.

True. However answering these questions does help me decide how much trouble their answers cause for the players. But, as usual for many 40k questions, the range of possibilities is large enough to include all the interesting possibilities, along with the boring extremes of "they sent a force big enough to kill you with orders to kill you" and "they don't care about you".

Now comes to stating up the immortals. The biomancer and heretek are obvious, I'll base them around the DH and Ascension options, with a couple of tweaks.

For the Halo-user, a heavily Rogue Trader character who has the full halo device alterations could work, but I'm open to suggestions. I need something thematically appropriate for someone who was running the dynasty before he found the halo device.

The dark pact guy is going to be interesting. Coming up with a thematically appropriate idea, while keeping him hard to kill, is tricky. So I think I'll be going with someone who believes himself to be pure, and that his long life is a gift from the Emperor that he must keep secret from all but the "true believers" on his crew. I have a few surprises, but I don't expect him to live long after players learn the truth.

Immortal people must have lost a lot, for instance people they loved.

Maybe its an artifact that will let them bring back some of their lost loves.

Alox said:

You forget that this is the 40K universe. People don't give a **** about death anymore, they have been at war for so long that a graphic demise of his most trusted and loyal friends is just another day. I'm assuming that if you are immortal, you aren't sitting on your ass all day eating cheese buffs. You are using that immortality to accomplish something, and see far more than any normal man.

Alox said:

Looking just at the four I proposed, we have:

- Someone who took the Ad-mech's dogma of "the flesh is weak" a step or two too far. Have a look at the talent Rite of Pure Thought , removing the entire emotional part of the brain is standard procedure. So I don't see him having a sense of loss.

- Someone who has had their entire mind altered by an alien artefact. I don't expect his mind to be human enough to feel loss any more.

- Someone who has fallen for one of the chaos powers, to the point where his obsession is the main point of his personality. The obsession would wipe out any loss he felt.

- An Inquisitor. Someone expected to kill tens of billions when it will save trillions. Someone who has seen first-hand just how unimportant a human life usually is. Someone who must be very careful about forming emotional bonds, because she is going to anger very powerful entities who will not hesitate to use those bonds against her. And that's just for a mortal inquisitor.

The way I see it, if there was any sense of loss, then these immortals have lived long enough that any sense of loss they once felt has long since been removed by whichever motivation keeps them from looking at all the pain and suffering that exists in 40k, how little effect their existence has had, and just giving up and dying.

Alox said:

There's a fair amount of potential here, really. Some ancient and unknowable thing that has spent longer than the average life span of several species obsession over the one it lost. The immortal probably can't even remember what their love looked like, or sounded like, it's just been an obsession for so long that it's the obsession that matters now, not the person. Driven mad by longing, this cfreature has broken every rule, over stepped every boundary, just to be with its hearts desire... who would probably not be able to recognise the immortal now, not after the maddening effects of countless aeons of madness.

There can be love in a crapsack world, it just rarely turns out well.