Hi guys,

I have been eyeing off Dust Tactics for a while now waiting to see what was released and try to see if it has any longevity.

I come from a GW games background (Since Rogue Trader Days) and while I still enjoy 40K and WHFB I am keen to have a go of this one too.

Where would I start (Apart from the Starter set)?

What would I buy next?

Please, Please tell me there are miniature rules coming or am I better off using Secrets of the Third Reich Rules or similar?

I am not sure the "Board game" will do much for me or my mates. The models look lovely but does the game play get boring quickly or is it one sided?

How many models do you need to play the additional scenarios in the Starter Set and Expansions?

Where will the expansions lead?

Will there be other factions from UK or Japan etc..?

Sorry for so many questions but I am on a budget and cannot afford to waste my money or get in trouble with the Minister for Finance (My Wonderful Wife).

Happy Gaming,

Allan

Where would I start (Apart from the Starter set)?

You can play the first book of scenarios with the starter set. Once you play the game awhile you can decide if you want to build up one of the two factions currently available. The Core Set scenarios ask for a 16 point army on each side which can be created using the units from the Core Set. The Core Set includes two 16 point armies, Allies and Axis.

What would I buy next?

Depends on your playing style. Once you play through the scenario book in the Core Set, you may want to pick up the next expansion, "Operation Cyclone". You will need to double your army point totals to 32 points for each side. You may want to pick up another Medium Robot/Mech, a command squad, and a tank killers squad. Depending on if you want to play Axis or Allies another Laser squad or BBQ squad will be a good idea. As of right now a squad is worth 2 points, a Medium Robot/Mech is worth 4 and a hero is worth 2 points.

Please, Please tell me there are miniature rules coming or am I better off using Secrets of the Third Reich Rules or similar?

There might be table top rules, but to be honest after playing with the grid system I would hate the idea of pulling out a ruler again. The game is very simple to setup and play.

I am not sure the "Board game" will do much for me or my mates. The models look lovely but does the game play get boring quickly or is it one sided?

Both sides are equally balanced. I am actually surprised at how well the game plays out. So far it has not become a boring game and no two games have been the same.

How many models do you need to play the additional scenarios in the Starter Set and Expansions?

Depends on your army lay out, can have 8 squads of at 2 points each or 4 mechs at 4 points each or a mix of both for the first scenario book. Double that for Operation Cyclone.

Where will the expansions lead?

The expansions will add new units and types of units with the last adding aircraft to the game.

Will there be other factions from UK or Japan etc..?

Yes, but it is unknown if they will be playable armies on their own or additions to the current armies. There will be a Sino-Soviet Army and Vrill Army for sure, other than that its up in the air.

.I come from a GW games background (Since Rogue Trader Days) and while I still enjoy 40K and WHFB I am keen to have a go of this one too.

i was into WH40K untill 3rd ed came out , i still look over the rules and build models to ebay from time to time , but tride and true , solid to the core , i am a minis gamer . i have played WH40k , mutant cronicals , at-43 , battle tech , and a million more besides over the last 20 years . THIS IS THE MINIS GAME I HAVE WAITED OVER 20 YEARS FOR !!!!!!!!!! but that said , this game is not for everyone .

Where would I start (Apart from the Starter set)?

really , just start with the starter , so you can see if this game is for you . unlike 40K and most other games , where they put out crappy lopsided starters to give you just a taste and FORCE you to buy more , this starter is exactly equal , and gives you much more than just a tatse .

as a minis gamer your self , you will understand that each army has its own "flavor" so they are different , but equal .

the scenarios in the book call for 16 points or less per side , and the starter has 16 points of each side . but also keep in mind that the scenarios are a good starting point , but you are not limited to them in any way .

What would I buy next?

from there , if you enjoy it , i would get the operation cyclone expansion , 2 medium walkers for each side ( or just your side if you traded out one side to your friend ) a command squad , and a couple squads for each side . this would give you 30 points , which is the highest point value for the scenarios in the expansion

even with my history as a minis gamer , i am probably the loudest voice calling to keep the grid . between the grid and the game mechanics , this game works so perfectly and solves so many problems that i have seen in so many other games . there is no argueing , no cheating , no hurt feeling , just sitting down and playing and having a blast .

while i know some people just cant get past the grid , there are also many of us that are minis gamers that just love it . to that extent , many of us have gone off the boards and made our own gridded playing surfaces . i and my group gridded off twin bed sheets so we can play on HUGE playing areas .

and its easy to make 3d terrain , or even just use some of the 40K terrain on the grid .

I am not sure the "Board game" will do much for me or my mates. The models look lovely but does the game play get boring quickly or is it one sided?

i know this is called a "board game " , but in reality its a minis game that uses grid movement . i have never heard of battle tech being called a "board game" , its always been called a minis game . this game is just as much a minis game as battel tech .

a better way to look at this is as a miniatures game being developed and marketed as a board game . for instance , there are plenty of board games out there like say settelrs of catan . SOC has a main game , and several expansions . people who buy the main game can play it and have tons of fun for years . but if they want to buy an expansion they CAN , not MUST . and its the same with this . you could buy the starter , and some extra units , and your buddy could decide he wants to buy the expansion . you can both sit there and play , and have a great time , and still have just a bloody a fight despite YOUR NOT having the expansion .

in this case , YOU choose what YOU WANT , you are not forced to buy every new unit just to keep up with your opponent .

as for lopsides battles and boaring , the gencon release had a tournament , and it came down to a 50/50 split on the victories and ended up in a tie breaker . i have run/played in over 250 games now , and its really never been lopsided to any one side . the longer you play it out , the more variety you see , and the more experience you gain , the more challenging it becomes .

and the board it self can seriously change the game experience . the boards in the box make a battle field of about 33X33 inches . but many of us that made our own play mats and such have bigger boards , and its changes how the game plays .

the only thing i suggest is dont just always play the same person , and dont make dumb mistakes : when this game first came out i saw some posts by people claiming they lost their walker the first turn of every game . once you play , you will understand when i ask how stupid do you have to be to put your walker in the line of fire the first turn of EVERY game .

How many models do you need to play the additional scenarios in the Starter Set and Expansions?

the starter has 16 points per side , and thats all you need toplay the starter scenarios . the expansion set has scenarios for 20-30 points , walkers are 4 points , troop squads 2 , so you decide after you figure out your playing style what YOU WANT to fill the points .

Where will the expansions lead?

this game is based on the dust comics and graphics novels that paulo parent has been doing for about 10 years . right now there are 4 more planned expansions , beyond that we dont know , but as long as this game keeps rocking , its going to keep going on .

Will there be other factions from UK or Japan etc..?

they wont be full factions , according to an interview i read , parente says the **** and brits will be "represented" later on . the **** are axis , and the brits are allies . but as simple and friendly as this game is , there is nothing stopping you and your friends from making home made units for casual play . i have done several , their unit cards are inthe gallery at boardgamegeek.com , and there are several blogs going on out there with some home ruled units . just take it all with a grain of salt as some people just get nutty with the stats .

Sorry for so many questions but I am on a budget and cannot afford to waste my money or get in trouble with the Minister for Finance (My Wonderful Wife).

i totaly understand , i am on a butt diamond tight budget too

you could buy one of EVERY THING that is out right now , for both sides , and the starter , and you will spend less than you would spend on a WH army .

and rather than go into a lengthy explanation of it here , i would suggest you read this whole thread :

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp?efid=196&efcid=1&efidt=489146

it discusses and explains a points issue that some have . i suggest reaading it because the points system in this game is is very different than you are used to .

Where would I start (Apart from the Starter set)?

I would start by playing the starter set if you plan on buying it. Then choosing a side to follow if you want. I can tell you right now if you buy 1 of every currently available model axis and allies its still cheaper than a 40k army, $300-ish compared to the $500-800 with the new price increase. They also come out mostly quarterly and prob about $80-100 an expansion.

What would I buy next?

If you go to my blog.(links in my signature) I haven't done it recently bc no new models have come out but I have pros and cons and some tactics.

Please, Please tell me there are miniature rules coming or am I better off using Secrets of the Third Reich Rules or similar?

The rules you can download under the support page of the Dust Tactics section of FFG. There is talk of a table style game but nothing yet. I would give it a try before you knock it. There won't be those lame ppl trying to fudge a 1/2 inch to get in assault or in range of ther rapid fire, you are either there or not. LOS and premeasureing is super easy to check also.

I am not sure the "Board game" will do much for me or my mates. The models look lovely but does the game play get boring quickly or is it one sided?

I've been playing 40k since 2nd edition and I have yet to get board of this game. It's a lot of fun and each time I've played something different happens. Plus you do not have to use the missions in the books you can make you own like you would for 40k. I have some on my blog that I made similar to 40k ones like Annihilation, Capture and Control, and Sieze Ground.

How many models do you need to play the additional scenarios in the Starter Set and Expansions?

for the Operation Cyclone you need 16 AP or 200points in tournament rules(they are in the support page also). For Cyclone you need double that, but you don't have to have double. You can still play Cyclone at 16AP. It doesn't make a difference.

Where will the expansions lead?

Zombies, Gorillas as shown. They are coming out with bigger walkers, faster walkers. Aliens and Russians.

Will there be other factions from UK or Japan etc..?

They haven't mentioned them as coming but think of them as WItchhunters or Daemonhunters (Not Grey Knights) with Space Marine and Imperial Guard Allies.

All good advice above. I also come from the stanndard tabletop background and had to wrap my head around the hybrid TT/boardgame concept. As the others have said about the grid, don't knock it 'til you've tried it. Same with your friends. Ask them to keep an open mind for just one game, that should be all it takes to pick up at least one convert in any given 40K crowd.

As to future tabletop rules, I've been waiting too and there's been a new rumor from Duncan Idaho from Dakka that they are coming. He doesn't post here, but his rumors over there have usually panned out:

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/330/325313.page#2823602

Primus Pilus said:

Hear ye, hear ye. Allan, do take heed from all the voices of experience here. If all the above distinguished minis players said they enjoy the gridded experience of Dust Tactics, something must be very right with DT. Why insist on minis rules before you even give DT a spin? As for me, I am nowhere as experienced as these guys are because I come from a traditional wargame environment where everything is in hexes. When I first saw DT with it's simple square grid, I was skeptical about the system. But nevertheless, I give it a try and was hooked ever since. The game system plays so fast and furious that I can cram in a few games within 2 hours and still wanting more. Try that with ASL or ATS. You'll be lucky if you can complete one full scenario within 2 hours. And after a single game, you feel so exhausted that you wouldn't want to go for another round. So now you have heard from both sides of the universe, the pure minis and pure hex players.

oh , and as a GW player , i would like to make a fitting analogy .

GW is kinda like a big frozen pizza . its covered in cheese , and no matter how many time you cook the same brand frozen pizza , you gotta look at the directions when you put it in , and probably atleast once or twice more when you actually put it in the oven and again durring cooking , and your gameing experience is directly related to how well the cook follows those directions so that you dont end up with a dry burnt pizza , or a horribly undercooked pile of glop . and once the pizza is on the table , evetually you get to that last slice that some one will pick a fight over .and when its all said and done , all that cheese can leave you feeling bloated and plugged up , and for the next few days you are dying for some prune juice and fiber to get it out of you .

dust tactics is more like a order of BBQ spare ribs , they are all covered in meat and have sauce and flavor , and its all instant gratification , no cheese here . and theres plenty of ribs in the big old bag to go around ( people always buy enough ribs to go around cause their ribs , and we know we all love them ) you just dig right in and and get all covered with saucy gore and when its all done , you feel full , but it was so good , you cant wait to poop to make room for more so you can do it all over again

LOL, think you have finally lost it Kris

Just want to add, that I to came in from a wargame background, the game with grid is fantastic. If you are used to wargame 3D terrain and scenery, just plonk it on the table instead of the cards or even better make up a table and grid it off to make it look like a true wargame.

I second that. Kris you have lost it. lol u said poop.

Thank goodness I *just* finished my dinner when I am reading this

Hi Guys,

Some great answers to my questions! And a few unexpected answers. I did not expect "poop" to be part of any answer

With a recommendation like that I can hardly not get the game now.

Thanks for taking the time to help guys.

Happy Gaming,

Allan

Yeah I have been trying to promote this game at my FLGS and it seems alot of the 40k players like the models and not so much the game. They say "only 2 factions?" "the rules are too simple" "its over too quick"

If you like really complicated brain numbing games then this might not be for you. But I love it because it is simple, fun and easy and you can play several games in 2 hours. Also keep in mind that this game is fairly new. I am looking foward to aircraft myself.

I hope that this game really takes off cause I love the models and the game. The expansions will make the game even cooler. Also love the balance so far and hope the new "space marine" tank destroyers will not cheese the game too much.

Well I will continue to play the game at the store and hope that some will catch on.

daveman006 said:

Not everyone is prepared to jump over to another game. They simply mean that they are not ready to switch and these comments should not be viewed as negative for DT. Indeed, 40K started out with space marines and orks only - two factions and no more. More factions can be fun and then you run into the issue with balance, an ongoing problem with WHFB and 40K. There are only 1 or 2 game systems at present with more than 6 factions and each remains balance to each other. Nowadays, I don't even bother to consider any game if I have to spend more than 20 minutes understanding the rules, nevermind spending the whole evening for only one game. I bet none of these 40K players know the rules of each faction well.

Well, since my copy of the Basic set is due in a few days, one thing I'm wondering is if FFG is going to go the way of GW and insist that every last model by one of their "official" models. Supposedly the game is based on 1/48 scale, so the question would be if FFG will print up some official cards and expansion rules, since tracked vehicles will behave differently from walkers, for sale (which I don't mind, they need to make some coin, so long as they don't try to **** us over it) and let us find and build our own Panzers, T-34s, Shermans, etc. It looks like they have basic rules for various WW2 weaponry already on the cards, so the conversion should be fairly easy to make.

Of course, FFG could state which models & manufacturers it found acceptable or simply go with any 1/48 scale vehicle. In either case it would be lots of fun to bring some "old" armor on the board and actually give the customers some service instead of "Only Zee FFG rulez haff de officialness santioning!, No otherz matter! Ve know notting about zem. Do not play wit zem, de are verbotten! Ve are vatching you!"

Algesan said:

it would seem to be kinda yes and kinda no .

dust models.com has some 1:48 model kits , the first 2 used to come with stat cards in the beginning , but apparently that violated the contract between dust games and FFG . and FFG came out wih a statement that they will never be tournament legal or official . but for casual play , they are fine . some people have made stats for them , ontheir blogs and such . but take them with a grai of salt as some stats are kinda nutty , and make the unit either weak or overly strong because they dont take into account the relaytionships between some of the stats , and just look at the stats as individual things which they arent .

but you are encouraged to make the game your own .

i dont see FFG issueing a book , though it would be nice if they did .

i have some custom units over at BGG , just check out the links in my signature , and check out the files and blog sections of the page .

i have tried to apply my experience with this game , to making units and house rules that fill gaps , allow you to add units to the game , but dont break or abuse the game . and of course , i playtest it all before i finalize anything to make sure it fits the game , and is in the spirit of the game .

other than that , its either make your own , or use what some one else has made .

on a related side note , at some point next week i will be putting up a blog at BGG with charts of the damage values of numerous weapons calibres and types incase anyone is interested for use in making home made units .

right now i am just sitting down and doing the math , wich is the sucky unfun part , but it has to be done

Cool, looking forward to seeing your results, some of the ones I've seen make no sense at all. I've found one of my old sets of WW2 rules (been WW2 gaming for 40 years ) by Airfix and their gun/armour charts fit in very well with the Dust stat line.

Major Mishap said:

ya , even several of the formulas i have seen other people use seem iffy . and in several cases , made it pointless to bother spending a fortune to buy the models if they are going to blow up in a light wind , and makes them seriously unfun to play against if they are going to bully you around the field .

since i am forced to do a BGG blog , i figure i will do articles on terrain building , miniatures modding , and custom unit building , trying to post atleast an article each week that players can use to add to their gameing experience . of course , since i am having to do this at BGG , i dont have tocare about "official" concerns , or buying sources .

"Make up your own house rules."

"Make the game your own."

"Whatever makes it fun."

"Wonderful for casual play."

Game company speak for: "We are too f'ing lazy to do the job ourselves and we are too f'ing arrogant to work with unpaid players <shudder> who have forgotten more about this particular subject than we had a clue about. Oh, and NO, none of that stuff is official and we don't care about urination contests when two new sets of players meet up. Don't want the urination contests? Then don't listen to us when you read the first four comments we wrote."

The problem comes from not just wanting to make a buck (that is what makes the world go 'round), the problem comes directly from being so greedy that they don't want to give up the potential for grasping every last possible fractional penny of profit. Even if the decision has the potential to net them a higher profit margin on their current products plus extras.

/rant

Really, how many players would prefer to see a rulebook + cards for models we can buy all over the place? Both soldiers and vehicles. Then FFG can focus on Sino-Soviet, Brit, Japanese and alien special forces and vehicles. Major coolness. Now it works for tournaments and between groups.