In my group, I have a player who's really into playing an adept. He's willingly discarded the combat aspect of the game, trusting others to take care of that bit for him. When he asked me what sort of boni he can get from collecting books and scrolls of different kinds, my flat answer was: "Uh, well, maybe a +10 bonus to the appropriate skill?" In my mind, this isn't very exciting.

Fully acknowledging that knowledge is dangerous in the 40k universe, I still want to give my player some incentive to continue playing his adept. I whipped up a system, using mostly familiar mechanics, to allow him to "do combat" with enigmas.

Some would argue that just adding more mechanics won't spice things up, and that it's much more fanciful if you as a GM take time to fully describe the process of research and studying, instead of chalking it up with mechanics. But, there's a whole book of guns (The Inquisitor's Handbook), and it hinges much on specific mechanics of different guns and weapons. What if we could have something similar for adepts, and other people interested in lore?

I haven't play tested this, at all, and I'm certainly no game designer. Some of this will seem extremely arbitrary. My point isn't to make the most realistic system for doing research and solving enigmas, just to provide a frame work for it, that does something else than just "Alright, roll Forbidden Lore (Cults) to see if you can decipher the text. You failed? Aw. Right-o, to the next encounter."

Often when lore/trade checks come up, it feels like either A) The adventure hinges on success, in which case you need to allow the players to succeed eventually or B) Lore checks mostly add "fluff" to the adventure. My system makes success inevitable when it comes to solving enigmas/doing research, but it introduces a resource to be managed; time . Sometimes, the players will have very little time to solve an enigma, and may run out of time before they are finished with what they are doing.

I'd love to get some feedback on the mechanics of this system. Should I add something? Tweak? Are there any glaring and obvious mistakes I've made?

Skill test : In order to solve an enigma, the player rolls against the appropriate skill. Most often, lore and trade skills will apply, but other skills such as Survival or Tech-use may be appropriate, depending on the enigma. +10 and +20 to skills apply as normal, as well as bonuses from talents. If the character has several applicable skills, a synergy bonus may be applied. If the roll is successful, there's a chance to make progress, and the character makes a progression roll.

Progression roll : The progression roll is the character’s basic ability, modified by equipment and his intelligence bonus. This deducts enigma points. Complexity subtracts enigma points scored with the progression roll.

Team work : Multiple characters can work together to solve an enigma. All characters trying to solve the enigma work in the same time unit, and time will only progress when all involved characters have made their attempts to solve the riddle.

Critical success/research mishap : On a roll of 10 on the progression roll, there’s a chance for critical success. Roll on the appropriate table and apply results. On a roll of 99 against his skill, a research mishap has occurred. Roll on the appropriate table and apply results.

Basic ability :

1d5 + Intelligence bonus

Talents :

Total recall – Lower time unit by one (minute to instant, hour to minute, day to hour etc.)

Enigma format :

Name – The designation of the enigma

Skill – The skill(s) used to solve the enigma. If more than one are applicable, synergy bonus will come into effect

Enigma points 0-30 (possibly more) - This represents the progress made towards solving the enigma. This can be as straightforward as reading a text and drawing a conclusion, or working with different pieces of research to form a thesis.

Complexity 0-10 This represents the inherent difficulty in the subject or research. The higher the complexity, the more difficult it will be to progress and find a solution. Highly advanced academic texts and alien or daemonic riddles will have a high complexity.

Time (instant (only talents may reduce an enigma to Instant) – minute (minor riddles, very short texts or phrases) – hour (short texts) – day (standard books) – week (collection of books) – month (small library, part of library, thesis) – quarter year (major thesis, library) – half year (major research) – year (finding out a daemon’s true name, xenos research ) – Each attempt to solve the enigma will use up one time unit. For instance, three rolls to solve a minor riddle (with a time unit of “minute”) will represent three minutes of trying to solve the riddle.

Notes: Additional notes go here.

Example enigmas :

Minor riddle

Skill: Logic / Intelligence

Enigma points: 10

Complexity: 0

Time: minute

Note: No risk of research mishap

Analyze short book

Skill: Literacy

Engima points: 10

Complexity 2

Time: hour

Eldar puzzle box

Skill: Forbidden lore xenos / logic

Engima points: 15

Complexity: 5

Time: hour

Note: If any rolled is failed while tampering with the puzzle box, it will release a poisonous gas upon opening. This causes 1d10+4 impact damage to anyone not wearing a rebreather unit.

Daemon’s true name

Skill: Forbidden lore (Daemonology)

Enigma points 30

Complexity: 10

Time: Year

Note: If the enigma is completed, roll willpower. If failed, gain 1d5 corruption points

Tools :

Reference material (books/notes) suited to the subject (Dependent on skill)

Adds to basic ability.

Common craftsmanship +2

Good craftsmanship +5

Best craftsmanship + 1d5+5

Cogitator

Common craftsmanship - Decreases complexity by 2. Risk of cogitator mishap

Good craftsmanship – Decreases complexity by 4. Risk of cogitator mishap

Best craftsmanship – Decreases complexity by 4. No risk of cogitator mishap

Library

Upgrades basic ability

Common craftsmanship 1d10 + Intelligence bonus

Good craftsmanship 1d10+2 + Intelligence bonus

Best craftsmanship 1d10+5 + Intelligence bonus

Research mishap table

On a roll of 99, a research mishap will have happened.

1-3 Setback - You lose 5 enigma points.

4-6 Time consuming – Each time unit spent will now count as two.

7-9 Mental block – The complexity is raised by one.

10 Forbidden knowledge – You suffer 1d5 corruption points.

Critical breakthrough table

On a natural roll of 10, you have a chance of critical breakthrough. Roll again, with all applicable modifiers. If successful, consult the following table.

1-3 Progress! – Advance progress by 5 enigma points.

4-6 Speedy research – Each time unit is now halved.

7-9 – Genius insight – Lower complexity by one.

10 – God-Emperor’s favor – Roll 1d10 and add that to your progression roll. If a natural 10, roll again on this table.

Cogitator mishap table

Because machines are universally unreliable, any roll of 97-98 when trying to solve a riddle will result in a cogitator mishap.

1-3 Machine spirit protest – A successful Tech Use test is required to further utilize the machine. A new attempt to fix the cogitator may be made each time unit.

4-6 Adeptus Mechanicus assistance – The machine spirit protests and you require the help of the Adeptus Mechanicus to further utilize the cogitator. If summoned, they will extract payment for services rendered, amounting to a month’s income for the character. If you refuse to summon them, or are unable to (summoning the AdMechs may take anything from hours to days to months, depending on your location), the cogitator will simply refuse to work. A tech-priest with Trade (Technomat) is able to repair the cogiator with a successful skill test.

7-9 Unreliable data – The cogitator’s effect is reduced by half.

10 Malignant machine spirit – Gain 1d5 insanity points as the machine spirit subtly produces subversive data.

I'm not sure I understand the Basic Ability line. What's the 1d5 plus Intelligence bonus for? Do you mean the Skill test that they would be using the Required Skill for?

The various examples of Enigmas is nice, but I think it might be easier to do a point system based off of the Difficulty scale.

A list of requirements section for each Enigma might be nice to have along with the required skills.

Sometimes this will be obvious such as solving an Eldar Puzzle Box, you would need the box. Finding out the true name of a daemon might require grimoires relating to the daemon in question (which of themselves may pose hidden dangers to soul, physical health, and legal status)

Now I have not read very much of Dark Heresy, but do they have Degrees of Success like Rogue Trader and Death Watch? I would say 1 Enigma point gained per degree of success. For complex Enigmas that can cause lasting effects and a good Critical success, I would think a discount on the next time the character can purchase these skills would be in order.

Otherwise this looks fairly good and would enhance any of the games for 40k rpg.

vastrix said:

Thank you for the feedback! :>

Rereading the text, I realize the systems seem confusing, especially without an enlightening example to show what I meant.

In essence, to solve an enigma, the GM presents you with one, and you have the chance to try to solve it. This system is very similar to physical combat.

Basic ability represents your "raw" ability to deal with an enigma. It's your wits, cleverness, intelligence, ability to reason, all your mental accuity, but not reference material like books, points of data that would be helpful etc.

Enigma points are essentially the "hit points" of the enigma. When you've reduced these to zero, you solve the enigma. Complexity works like the "toughness" score of the enigma, and is countered by your intelligence bonus. The higher the intelligence bonus, the less complex an enigma will seem.

Note that I use "enigma" in a very broad sense here. It might just as well be called research, or problem solving or something similar. Each time unit ("turn") spent solving an enigma is time spent reasoning, reading up on similar cases, trying to find new literature on the subject, and connecting seemingly unrelated points of data to form a thesis, and more. Describing this should be left to the GM and the player. The system is meant to be somewhat abstract.

I'll try to illustrate this with an example:

Acolyte Bob and the Pamphlet of Doom

Acolyte Bob has found a pamphlet when raiding the local cult hideout. Now, stumped, he needs to find out where the cult leader is hiding. He looks through the evil cult's belongings and finds a pamphlet, The Pamphlet of Doom. He resolves to study it, to see if he can find out clues about the cult leader's whereabouts.

The pamphlet is a brief text (the Literacy skill is used in this skill check), so the GM assigns 10 enigma points, and the "minute" time frame. It is somewhat difficult to read, because of the esoteric nature of the text, so the GM judges it to be complexity 2. He figures that reading this text, and trying to figure out what it says will cause the researcher to be subject to a willpower roll, to see if any insanity points are gained, upon completing the research. He keeps this last bit secret.

Acolyte Bob, being fairly clever, has an intelligence of 41. He hasn't got any of his books on cults with him, so he won't be able to cross-reference any of his findings. He doesn't have any particular talents or equipment to help him out, just his raw ability of reason.

Acolyte Bob engages in research with the Pamphlet. He rolls 32 against Literacy to see if he can figure something out. With his Literacy just being a trained skill, he needs to get 41 or lower. Success! He then rolls basic ability against the enigma points, to see if he can solve part of it. He rolls a d5, and adds his Intelligence bonus. He rolls 2, and adds 4 for the Intelligence bonus, for a total of 6. The complexity of the Pamphlet text, 2, reduces this to 4. The GM subtracts 4 from the enigma points total of 10, to 6. One time unit has passed by, so Acolyte Bob has been studying the text for one minute. He continues reading, trying to figure out where the cult leader has gone to. He rolls Literacy again - 10. Success yet again! He rolls for progression (his basic ability + Intelligence bonus) and gets a 5 and adds 4 for a whooping 9. He subracts 2 for complexity and totals at 7. The GM subtracts 7 from the enigma total of 6, and the enigma is solved!

Acolyte Bob realizes far too late that the text contains subversive information, which threatens his very sanity. He rolls willpower, and fails, and gains an insanity point. However, he also reads between the lines, and notices several points in the text, which all point towards one spot. "In the house of the lord, search ye under the stairway to the heavens, and find the dark guide." Aha! The cult leader is obviously hiding underneath the stairs in Marius Hax estate! Acolyte Bob reloads his bolt pistol and charges off to apprehend the villain.

Dark Heresy indeed uses degrees of success. In this case, I think that the skill bonus of having a skill trained at +10 or +20 is enough, in and of itself, because of the help it brings to the skill test, without it further adding to the progression roll.

The exact effects of solving an enigma, or doing research on an unknown subject, should be up to the GM to decide. The outcome might be crucial information which brings the adventure forward, fluff information, or perhaps simply Insanity Points. Research in the Grim future of the 41st millenium should never be done casually :>

I have a rank 10 Adept Sage currently that I have been playing with for more or less a year and a half (currently running skype with my gaming group cause of distances). I will attest at low levels when weapon and ballistic skills are low my adept only got into battle when the numbers worked in her favor, melee being the choiciest of battle modes due to the ease of stacking up bonuses. She is still a fountain of forbidden knowledge but over the course of her career I have also taken many elite advances to push up her melee skills to adequate levels.

That being said lores in my gaming group have been used in less that standard varieties. For instance our acolyte cell in one mission managed to capture a cult leader who wouldn't talk in any known language. Our GM allowed my adept to use Forbidden Knowledge Cults to decipher what he was saying to get the information that was needed. We have also used Security as an Intellegence based skill to hack into data base systems for information. Our tech priest was busy at the time and we needed to hack a computer for something. And in one adventure the tech priest and my adept hacked into the programming of hostile servitors to shut them down and reprogram them to work for us. During down time she spends time in the Malleus libraries (our cell belong to Ordos Malleus our prime being an Inquisitor), and during missions if there is something that comes up that she may know (using Total Recall) she may "remember" reading some material.

I personally think the Enigma solution for you may not be needed. If played right with the right lores and a good enough roll the player can figure out the information that is needed. The more successes the better the information that the character "solves." But at the same time always have back up ways for the characters to discover the needed information because nothing is worse than a mission stalling due to really bad sets of rolls which will happen eventually. If the adept (for whatever reason) cannot get the relevant information then the player can have his/her character do research during down time to hopefully keep that from happening again in the future. I dont know what rank your players are but hopefully as your player's adept rises in the ranks and starts to think about ascending the Unfazaeble talent in Ascension is a emperor sent boon for those pesky Insanity/Corruption from reading those dark tomes and scrolls.

My adept isn't the greatest mind in the Imperium either. She has a 52 Int with one advance left to purchase and also has Unnatural Intellegence. Currently sitting on 5 Forbidden Lore Masteries (Cult, Daemonology, Heresy, Warp, Psyker, Inquisition) and specialized in Cult and Daemonology. She has the Conditioned Intellect, Mental Aegis, Mental Fortress and Armor of Contempt talents (much needed in daemon/cult hunting). Although I have yet to use the talent she also has Knowledge is Power for those rare instances where we need answers and we need em now. Depending on the lore test, she can push up to 80's and 90's on her test rolls.

Your enigma test example with my Adept would automatically get a +10 for the Int bonus. 52 Int with Unnatural Int gives auto 10 not counting any other rolls. Yes starting out and at the mid levels being an adept seems to be boring. You can hit a menacing looking wall and the knowledge area is lacking definately. But remind your player once ythey get over that rank 5 hump, having an adept around can be a scary boon because its hard to keep the information out of that character's hands.

Shibby1431 said:

I'm not doubting the combat effectiveness of an adept. With experience, all careers can hold their own in combat. My player's adept has some edge in combat, but the player prefers not to engage in combat. It's just not his focus with the character. I want to encourage other styles of play, besides the action/fight-oriented style.

Shibby1431 said:

Indeed, that's very much the same way we've done it. I try to be creative when I ask for skill checks, and my players also help out, often asking if they can use Lore skill [X] to find out more on a subject.

Shibby1431 said:

The issue here isn't whether the players actually succeed or not, in what they're doing. My player's adept is reasonably good at what he does, he succeeds pretty often, and if he doesn't, I usually provide the Acolytes with alternate (albeit a bit more tricky or painful) ways to succeed in their mission. To me, this isn't an issue of bumping up the adepts ability in any way. I feel confident in scaling opposition against my players' character ranks. What I'm after here is something more subtle. I want to add new and interesting ways for my adept to conduct research.

When our characters engage in combat, they have a multitude of options. They may choose which weapons to use, they may choose to engage in melee or stay ranged, they may choose their stance and mode of attack (guarded, aim + attack, all out attack etc.). They may even choose to break and try to escape an obviously overpowering foe, or what have you. Sometimes we engage in light freeform combats, where we don't roll any dice, sometimes the enemy is so powerful the group doesn't have to roll any dice (cue epic escape scene) etc. But we seldom just chalk up the entire combat scene to just one die roll. You don't just pile up your bonuses, and roll Ballistic Skill and check to see how well you did on that one roll to determine the entire outcome of a fight. What I'm after is some of that strategic thinking when my characters do research.

What I'd like to add to the system above is a few different "actions" the players can take. I haven't worked anything through yet, but it could be something like Speedy Research (which is sloppy, possibly speeding up the process, but perhaps yielding less than satisfying results), or Thorough Research (which takes longer, but is yields better results in some way), Unconventional Methods (which makes it easier, but runs the risk of getting the character an Insanity point or two), or something like that.

I could just freeform this, but my group likes to make use of mechanics sometimes. A fleshed out system, where my players may ponder different options when doing their research, such as what equipment to use, what methods to go with etc. is something I think we could have fun with. That all depends on the group's style of play, of course.

Shibby1431 said:

With Int 52, unnatural Intelligence, several Forbidden Lore Masteries, and numerous Ascended mental talents, what's your idea of a great mind then? O.o

Anyway :> No, my player's adept character is really useful to the group. In fact, he's pretty much the person who carries the entire group, connecting the dots, finding the odd bits of information that makes the entire plot seem obvious. He has had fun playing it from the start, and he's really useful to the group, regardless of rank. I'm not doubting the usefulness of having an adept in the group (in fact, the times when we've played a group without any Lore-type of character (lacking an adept/tech-priest/psyker), those are the times when we've really been stumped.

I want to add new and interesting ways to conduct research in my game, to give my player some incentive to continue with his quest for knowledge. And do more than just add another +10 to one of his lore skills.

I find the mechanics of your system to be fine overall, I just wonder: why not simply use the Investigation rules from the DH core rulebook? Basically, "research" is just another way to understand investigation. Instead of using Inquiry to dig up information (for example), you're after a different kind of information with a different volume of data to sift through. What your systme describes is (essentially) just another type of extended tests superimposed on the mechanics that already exist. You could stretch this over the course of an entire campaign for a particularly difficult "Enigma."

I think I get what you're trying to get at: you want to make playing a knowledge-based character interesting and dynamic out side of combat. And you want the cool Lore stuff that they pick up to matter. Also, we don't want all knowledge encounters/challenges to be a one-die-roll affair.

Macharias the Mendicant said:

O.o

I think I've read the book a hundred times over, and still I've managed to miss just that particular system. Thanks! It might be that I overlooked this, because my gaming group has never used it :>

I think investigation and research should be dynamic in the game, especially in a game that is so focused on these particular aspects. I can make it dynamic through storytelling techniques, and that's often how I do it. But it tends to end up with me, the GM, just prattling about obscure lore and stuff the character would know, essentially telling my player how his character is doing his research, instead of letting him do the decision-making himself.

BrotherSurge said:

I agree with you that it's a tough thing to do. I love playing a character with a lot of knowledge skills but generally only when I know something about the world and the knoledge OOC. Then, I can sort of roll the dice and "positively metagame" and take over the narration from the GM about how I came upon that info. Or, if I know something about our situation, I can present it in-character based on my OOC info.

I think that one way might be to simply ask the player to describe - ideally - how they're researchign it. Are they walking through the stack of a LIbrarium, trying to understand the particular system of cataloging in effect in this library? Or are they trying to use social skills to get some info from sages? As a GM, I like to do something like this. I would have a character roll a relevant skill for something they were interested in searcing out, then I would use the result of that die roll to suggest how a character might go about it and propose different avenues. More degrees of success mean I provide more (and more detailed) possible starting spots.

Ultimately, I would encourage the player to get involved in describing the process. Hey,. if they do a good job explaining how they do it, I would even be inclined to give them a bonus on their roll!

now you're making me want to roll up an Adept! loL!