I would like to start off by saying this is not another thread on altering the rules or talking about the errors of the examples. It is just get see how people play the following issue im about to talk about.

Have a look at the example on page 26 of the rule book, now the example says the US squad has LOS to Squad B and Squad D (I know, i know but not what this is about ) Now how would you play this, dose Sqaud B and D also have LOS to the US squad? as the example only talks about the US squads LOS.

In my group we play that they do,

After I have a had some replys I will get into the next part of what I am leading into.

I belive that the general rule is that LOS works so that if A has LOS to B then B has LOS to A. Thus B and D can see the US squad.

Aussie_Digger said:

Sure they do.

Ok cool well i was thinking of this because the differnt elevation thing only talks about the unit up higher having LOS. The point i was getting to was its the same with the rules for balkas in FotB. the rules only talk about one unit so should the LOS rule apply to both units inside and out, as it only talks about the unit in the balka being out of LOS.

The rules state that LOS is always calculated from the unit on higher ground. A Balka is proberly best seen as Level-1 terrain. Thus all LOS would be calculated from units outside the Balka, preventing LOS in both directions.

Thats was i was trying to get at (both units dont have LOS) as some have been playing the balka as the unit in the balka having LOS and the units outside not having LOS. And using the justification that it only refers to the unit in the balka not being in LOS. I wanted to use the example of the unit on a hill as this also only refers to one unit not both yet everyone i know of plays that both units in the elevation scenario have LOS. So with the balka it should be the same principle, the unit in the balka isnt in LOS so the unit outside shoudn't be either.

Aussie_Digger said:

Completely agree. They only time units in balakas and ones outside it should see one another is when they are adjacent. If this is not the case, they don't see each other. So in that sense it's the same again as in your hill example: when A sees B, then B sees A.

I submitted the Balka question to FFG in simple terms and they have declined to reply. I think their design staff are off with the pixies.

I recommend the common sense interpretation, which is that units in a Balka can only see and be seen by adjacent units or via LOS along Balka hexsides. This is the sort of thing used in other games.

beresford said:

that is how I play it,

Aussie_Digger said:

But this is one of those the things... Why cannot FFG proof read their game

beresford said:

And it is the only thing that makes sense game-wise.

beresford said:

I agree with this statement if we want to keep the rules simple (and logic). But having taken a look to a balka picture on another topic, I can see that maybe not vehicules but infantry could take cover in a balka as they would in a trench. The problem would be to formulate a simple rule taking this into account. I wonder how other rules deal with this.

One further question: If a squad occupies a level 2 hill hex summit which is surrounded on six sides by level 1 hills which in turn is surrounded by level 0 clear terrain hexes, does the unit on the level 2 hill have LOS to units occupying any of the level 0 clear terrain hexes (and vice versa)? or not? In other words if there is only one level 1 hill hex in between a unit on a level 2 hill and a unit on a level 0 clear terrain hex, is there a LOS between the unit on the level 2 hill and another unit occupying a level 0 clear terrain hex? or not?

rhall60918 said:

I see the issue you bring up here, technically how the rules read the level 0 hexes would all be blind hexes. Though i try to use some common scence and look at it as if the level 1 hexes are part of the same "total" hill then i would see this as looking down a hill.

I find myself turning more and more to the rules of conflict of heroes for terrain to help clear up grey areas in toi (i also use the balka rules from CoH), as they just make more sence and they keep things simple (although FFG claims the rules are the way they are to keep things simple, but i would arguee that the little extra detail COH uses makes the rules simpler as there are no grey areas)

take this sentence from the CoH rule book (if it were in ToI rules this question would probably have never came up):

" A clear hill hex dose not create a blind spot for units firing from higher up along the same hill slope"