I'm planning on using a house-rule that Bilbo costs 6 threat, in accordance with the other 13 heroes that have been released/previewed. I've read many arguments about him being a strictly worse Beravor, which is definitely true at a cost of 9, but I think that at a cost of 6, he compares favorably. With the new cost, your starting threat for Lore is below 30 which is awesome and you get his benefits. Once I get my hands on him, I'll try replacing Beravor with Bilbo at 6 in my Lore deck and see how it goes. Obviously, if I were in a tournament I'd have to play him as printed, but what do you think? Is anyone else going to try this?

I bet his threat is lower when released actually

He should cost 6. MAYBE you could convince me of a 7 in a 1-player game, since he effectively doubles your draw for no cost. But anything above 7 doesn't make sense to me.

I have to be honest. Bilbo is a great card, even for 9 threat (in a solo game). The 3 threat isn't that huge of a deal considering the extra draw (and if you've played card games before, then you know that draw=win).

I agree with sWhiteboy and Bryon's sentiments... wait and see, and card draw wins games!

My brother and I had a slight chuckle when we read (on other posts) that other players aren't using Lorien's Wealth, or didn't rate it highly.
FYI, the ST:CCG had virtually the same card as Lorien's Wealth (named Kivas Fajo - Collector) and we decided not to use it back in '95 because we could already draw cards at the end of the turn and it had a cost... we were kids
Once we started going to tournaments and seeing decks online, it was quite possibly the hottest card and was definately the most underestimated card by us!



I think 9 threat is too much for Bilbo.
It's 50% more than others have received... would you play Beravor with 15 threat?

As has been said already, many times, there may be some other advantages (involving other cards, like a certain ring perhaps...) that Bilbo has that we don't know about yet. Don't jump the gun...

Narsil0420 said:

yeah, I agree... wait and see how Bilbo relates to the other cards in the set, etc.... looking forward to giving lore more options!!!

Mestrahd said:

Totally agree. Well, I am not an expert yet but I have seen some of the game and although his ability is awesome it is not 3 Threat points more awesome than others - just take Legolas, for instance.

And I do hope it changes when it is released.

I like the formula for counting heroes' threat level and I'd like it to be kept.

Reading the other posts, yes, there may (and probably will) be more to Bilbo than meets the eye (right now). However, for the sake of uniformity, I'd like him Threat 6 nonetheless - and I am by no means a fascist or necrophile (maybe just a fool).

Bilbo is too good to have only 6 threat.Bilbo's abilitie is free.You don't need to exhauste him or to pay.You just draw an extra card for free.If you use Beravor you must exhauste her to draw 2 cards and if you don't use spirit in your deck(unexpected courage) then you have a less hero for quest/attack/defence.

If Bilbo's cost is 6 then you can have 28 starting threat with Beravor and Glorfindel and a free extra card.Sorry but this is too good to be true.

Besides the free draw, what are you going to use Bilbo for?

He can't be used to defend, with only 2 hit points.

He can't be used to quest, since his 1 willpower is too little to risk the auto-wound Treachery cards (since he has such little hit points).

I suppose you could use him to add a tiny bit to another character's attack, but I'd rather drop a 2 cost ally with 2 attack strength for that.

So, he's mainly just there to draw a card. I suppose if your deck is loaded with low-cost cards, that would be OK. Or perhaps paired with Eowyn and/or other cards that allow a discard for effect.

But the way I build decks, I'd rather have someone with just a little more body for that much starting threat.

Bryon said:

Besides attacking what else you are doing with Legolas now?His willpower is the same as Bilbo's.His defence is worst than Bilbo's and only his hit points are higher than Bilbo's but with protector of Lorien Bilbo can easy defend himself and you have your extra free card every round.

Also those extra things are only with Bilbo in the game.We don't know if Bilbo will have his sting or his Mithril coat and what abilities those possesions will have.We can only wait for the AP and then we can say if Bilbo is good hero or not.

I do kinda see Bryon's point. Having Bilbo in the game, having effectively 2 Heroes with third just sorta around for his ability does seem weak. Legolas, while he can't quest any better than Bilbo, has a huge upside in combat. Not only can he take an undefended attack damage from most enemies, when he attacks, he usually gives you progress tokens and with his Ranged, he can attack Enemies engaged to another player. I'm still twiddling with the starter decks but no way I'm even thinking of swapping out Beravor for Bilbo, let alone Denethor or Glorfindel.

If I can avoid it, I don't want my Heroes defending, Allies are there to die for that. Only exception I might make is Denethor with Protector of Lorien, 4 Defense kicks ass, but then, why would I want Bilbo when I could have Denethor and/or Beravor. Even if you have to exhaust Beravor, she can still contribute by taking undefended damage from some enemies, something Bilbo categorically cannot do (at least not take and survive).

Also, Servant, you do think they would make Hero-specific Attachments? Meaning that unless you use Hero X, you can't use Attachment Y. I for one am not seeing FFG going that route. Attachment for a specific Sphere, maybe even a keyword (Dwarf), but not single Hero-specifics. Even if they give Sting/Mithril Coat extra bonus (like Dwarven Axe on a Dwarf), they should also apply to Frodo at least (Frodo's been spoiled).

Dam said:

I realy don't know mate but i hope so.I realy want to see in this game some unique artifacts/weapons like Anduril,Sting,Glamdring etc..We already have Celebrian's stone for Aragorn and maybe FFG will give us some more unique artifacts.

servant of the secret fire said:

I do like the current approach, where Celebrian's Stone does its big thing (+2 WP) for anyone, but gives something extra for Aragorn (even if currently I don't have any use for Aragorn with Spirit icon). Even if Legolas with Blade of Gondolin making Ranged attacks does make me chuckle (Boomerang of Gondolin ) everytime I use him.

servant of the secret fire said:

What SOTSF said, heroes that have an ability that does not require exhausting that provides a significant advantage should cost more then the sum of the parts like the other heroes. At 6, Bilbo would be seriously undercosted, 9 might be a little high, but really, gettting an extra card while still having an exhaust available is a tremendous advantage. Obviously, Bilbo's value decreases with more players, so depending on where they landed with the actual value, 9 is probably still a very good value in solitaire mode, a very poor value in 3-4 players, and just ok in 2 player, if lower, it would be hard to pass up in solitaire (my opinion only).

Dam said:

In the other LCGs, with respect to the character specific attachments, there is a small bonus for everyone, but the specified character gets something better. I'm assuming this game will follow that trend.

That is a good point about having the exhaust left on Bilbo, but what are you going to use Bilbo's exhaust to do?

Questing is too dangerous, since he has such little HP and the Treachery card that wounds all exhausted characters could be brutal against him.

Defending is too dangerous, since a +1 shadow card allows a 3 strength enemy to kill Bilbo.

Attacking is all there is left, and his attack value is only a 1. Hardly worth it.

As I said before, he'd probably be balanced at a 7. Actually, I think I am less concerned about his high cost as I am about his low HP. If he were the same cost and strengths, but had even 1 more HP, that might be OK. That way I could at least use him to defend.

There better be some really great stuff for Hobbits coming, or I'm afraid Bilbo's nickname is going to be Binder.

Well, if there is some Hobbit equipment coming, then it might take the entire cycle before you get everything that makes a hobbit good. Since the 6 packs in each cycle are technically a "set," the cards aren't always useful until you have the entire set available.

Bryon said:

If you're worried about The Necromancer's Reach, remember too that Dol Guldur Orcs are also a potential draw in every single scenario so far, and if you're the first player, that 2 damage is enough to drop Bilbo instantly.

Bryon said:

With the cards we have now i can only imagine that you can use protecor of Lorien on Bilbo for an extra defence/wp if you play only lore and use him to defend weak monsters.If you use him in a dual sphere deck citadel plate from tacticks,Celebrian's stone from leadership and favor of the lady from spirit can boost Bilbo's stats and you can use him for some more things except the free card every round.

But honestly i must wait and see what other cards the AP will have to help Bilbo (if there will be any) and then i can say if Bilbo deserves a spot in your deck.

Dam@

Yea it is kinda weird that Legolas can use the extra attack and progress wen he use his range abilitie with a melee weapon .Bow of the Galadrim or just a bow (cause Galadriel gave bow of the Galadrim to Legolas after Moria) fits better.

If you think Bilbo should be a 9 because he doesn't exhaust then Eowyn and Gloin should be 12. They're both vastly better than Bilbo and don't need to be exhausted to use their ability. As others have pointed out, Bilbo is only good for 1 extra attack point, because any other exhaustion is too dangerous for his frame. Granted, there may be a Hobbit only attachment that is godly, but I still don't think that justifies the cost. Frodo follows the formula and he's arguably better than Bilbo. Yes, Bilbo rocks the solitaire, but even going to 2 players which is where I'd use him, he slides down the hotness scale.

servant of the secret fire said:

But if you have to use all those cards to boost Bilbo, just how much better would another character be with those same attachments?

Mestrahd said:

Neither ability comes near the power of drawing an extra card (with a one-time cost of 3 threat) EVERY TURN.

Eowyn's ability has the cost of discarding one card. That's the exact opposite of drawing a card. So, if drawing is "win", then discarding is "lose" (except in certain situations).

Gloin's ability is amazing, but it requires him to take damage. The damage can be healed, but that uses up resources (which is counterproductive to the ability) and you have the opportunity cost of 1, or more, cards. For example, Citadel Plate gives him 4 hit-points (which means 4 more resources), but it also costs 4 resources. For every Lore of Imladris used on Gloin, you produce a gain of 1 Resource (only if you've already taken 3 damage). Your best option for resource gain, when using Gloin, is either Daughter of the Nimrodel or Self Preservation. Even still, it takes time to produce a gain in resources, and you have to draw the necessary card(s).

I guess if enough GOOD lore cards with cheap costs get made, then the extra drawing will be really useful. But right now, my Lore decks usually need resources more than they need cards.