http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=2268

I believe this is the first new book announced since Deathwatch's initial release. I'm always prefer my planetary info with a more concrete adventure to go with it, but I'm sure I'll browse this at the store and see if it has enough to hold my interest. So not an automatic buy like Mark of the Xenos, but it is nice to see continued support announced. If it has enough adversary stats I might pick it up.

Any wild speculation as to what this book will be like? Is this what people want for Deathwatch? What other sorts of books are you looking forward to?

Of course, I expect they'll release another round of pdf catalogs in time for GenCon.

More details on the major planets and warzones? Me likey. It probably won't be an immediate buy, but if it's any decent I expect I'll pick it up. There's been so much coverage about the Tyranids so far, it'll be nice to learn more about the Tau and how that front is going.

Is it safe to assume that this is the same book that was announced int he litany of war document, only under another name? If that's the case, it's just a rewording from "achilus crusade" to achilus assault.

Jackal_Strain said:

That would be my guess. The names are almost identical, the release dates are roughly the same, and the descriptions of the two sound alike.

You are right, I had forgotten about the last book in that PDF. It wasn't high on my list of books to get, so I just tuned it out.

Still, I hope they start announcing new books again. I guess we'll have to wait until GenCon to see more though.

deinol said:

I am sitting on the fence and watching this one. My reasoning is this: the Crusade is the one major thing that's going on. Individual planets and stuff I can improvise myself without them having to tie into the bigger picture. The AC is the bigger picture though and the DW are by nature part of that war effort. So if this book enables the GM to enable his players to become a part of this war effort and help him simulate an on-going Crusade, that's interesting.

Without the Crusade you just have a loose collection of systems. The crusade ties everything thematically together, perhaps even threatening to dwarf the Deathwatch's original mission in the Reach.

I have to say the Diary entry wasn't very meaty. Looking for further data on the subject. :-)

Alex

Looks quite a fluff-heavy book. Not sure what I'll use from it in any depth, to be honest: I can make up my own sections of war-torn worlds as backdrops!

It talks of stats for foes... well, if MoX is good, we won't need those, because they'll all be in MoX!

Scenario ideas...? Meh. I can do that.

Probably some campaign-specific honours and perhaps distinctions.

Hopefully they'll be decent enough to include another founding Chapter and to not screw it up in the same was as the IF.

I'm a bit underwhelmed about it, to be honest. At least from what little has been said. I'll certainly buy it, and hopefully they'll be a lot more crunch than inferred and a lot less need for antagonist's stats than inferred due to MoX.

Basically; RoB spoiled us, and I think that they'll have a problem topping that!

I'm a bit baffled that people view "fluff" books as less necessary than books with stats and equipment etc.

If there's one thing the 40k line is profoundly lacking in, it's background and details of imperial society. Coming up with stats for aliens and daemons yourself is easy, as is making rules for weapons and equipment, but how do you explain how imperial society looks like to one who has no knowledge of the setting?

90% of the fluff comes from codexes and supplements to the tabletop game, and 99% of the fluff therein concerns the waging of war. We have an overabundance of information about the construction and use of various war machines and weapons, but can someone explain to me how a common car looks like in 40K? Does the "fluff" even go into stuff like this?

How is the living conditions of normal people? We know it's harsh for most of the imperium, but the setting doesn't really go into any detail about any facet of the ordinary citizens life.

I'm lucky. My players and I have all played the tt game for many years and read most of the novels, and we share a view of how things are based on the few nuggets of information that can be drawn from those.

I'm a firm believer that the 40k line needs fleshing out in the "fluff" department, and not so much in stats and equipment.

Jackal_Strain said:

Seriously? There are over a hundred novels available! There's tons of fluff around! Granted you're right that someone who didn't know the setting could use a primer but... how many groups play Deathwatch without a grounding in the setting? A small number, which makes catering to them solely to become a poor economic choice.

I'd be in more agreement if this book was called 'life in the Imperium', but it's not: It's focused on war and a crusade: A subject that is already covered in every 40k book ever released.

I can certainly see a place for fluff and background, but it needs to be more than a sweeping overview. I want more than one or two pages per planet, because I could knock that up myself at lunchtime! I don't want monster stats because there should be all of those I need in MoX if they've done their job right. A few pages of gear would be nice. Alternative armour history tables to replace the Art of the Artificer for Termi and Artificer armours, would be good.

Rather than just giving me a scenario idea, or a 'wouldn't a combat be cool like this', I'd want to see actual fully-fledged scenarios, or at least some pre-planned encounters that could spice up a quiet session or form the cornerstone of an adventure.

Basically: 200 pages of vagueness does not help me as a GM. I need specific stuff, be that actual crunch, or detailed and useful fluff.

I agree that the fluff needs to be in-depth and precise. I like the epicness of the Jericho reach, and my players enjoy moving from planet to planet in service of the deathwatch, but I sometimes wish that FFG would really take their time to go into detail about one or two planets. Give their players a comprehensive history and insight of, for example karlack and Hethgard, so that we get a better insight in life on at least some worlds int he reach.

Dark Heresy could really benefit from a book that focused exclusively on Scintilla for example, since that game is more about investigation and political maneuvering than Deathwatch.

And of the 100 or so novels, very few take the time to describe anything that isn't military or Inquisitorial in depth. And I get that. 40k is a military themed game, but when they release an rpg, the civilian aspect should get the same treatment imo.

The 'one page a planet' thing drives me crazy, to be honest. It's utterly useless to me. I can either flesh out something based on a few paragraphs, or I can come up with a more cohesive idea on my own. That said, I'm not sure how much use 20 pages on a planet would be, either. Very few are going to be visited by the party on a regular basis, so there's an enormous waste of material there. Likewise, specific NPCs are only useful as antagonists, and are still only useful once. Sure: Statting a chaos mage saves me a LOT of bother, but I don't want stats for Lord General Whatshisname. Fortunately, it seems that to date FFG have avoided statting 'friendlies', and I'm very glad of the fact.

Perhaps more useful would be -say- 10 pages on an Imperial promethium refinery, or about the internal layout of a ship-of-the-line (be it imperial or tau or chaos), an orbital shipyard, a sprawling jungle temple complex, a spire palace, IG command and control bunker complex, planetary palace, or whatever. Basically, a fairly non-specific backdrop to an adventure that can then be used wherever it fits, and can possibly see re-use. That would rock.

I can kind of do without drudge details on the population, too. Sure: A bit might be helpful, but familiarity with all the novels is enough detail, in general terms. I'd want more if this was DH, but the truth is that the Deathwatch are not going to be popping down to the bar!

Siranui said:

The Siege Master talent is pretty much junk, especially when compared with the Tech Marine's special ability. Why would anyone pay for this? If I wanted to do this, then -given the timeframe- I'd ask the GM if I can sandbags up, and it wouldn't cost me XP to do!

The Attack and Defence patterns were utterly, utterly dull, very niche, and both could be replicated and over-written with talents.

Skill list was pretty lacklustre. And weird. Tactics for 100xp a pop? No extra wounds? So many missed tricks.

Stat-ups are brilliant if you want to munchkin a Libby, but pretty lame for anyone else. A bit of a slap in the face, especially when compared to... well, anyone who gets anything useful. I think that we'd all agree that +5WP and +5T would have been a better way to fly.

Lack of mechanics with the Primarch's Curse.

A Chapter trapping that positively encourages the player to get his team-mates killed.

The Solo Mode is the redeeming bit, and is excellent and very thematic.

There's probably more, but I don't have the book to hand.

Siranui said:

This is just speculation on my part, but I'm guessing MoX will give us Xenos opponents and Hordes (here's hoping they include the Carnifex) while Assault will probably focus more on statting up individual or otherwise special characters, those important to certain fronts or warzones.

I'm gonna be pretty annoyed if MoX only contains generic Xenos stats! That would be a poor fluff:crunch ratio for what is essentially a 'monster manual'!

About MotX: We already know about the Dagon Overlord. There will be more individual xenos, iirc.

Siranui said:

Not junk because it stacks with Siege Master ability. Whether it stacks with Tech Marine's special ability also is unknown.

Siranui said:

I think with cover you only take the highest AV. Siege Master does improve cover.

Siranui said:

Bolter Drill was okay with the old weapon stats. Storm Bolters with special ammo and Bolter Drill is nice. You're right that the over-write does pose a problem.

Skill list was pretty lacklustre. And weird. Tactics for 100xp a pop?

That is the good stuff.

Siranui said:

Yeah, the write-up on the forum here was better. Nobody really got Andy Hoare's penance theme truly.

Siranui said:

I think you're exaggerating a bit on how bad it is (I play a CF based on official rules and like the PC) but are basically right. I think the basic flaw of Andy's approach was to not tie the overall theme together with an overall on-the-battlefield theme. A (1st Founding) chapter needs to be special on the battlefield. And in the case of the IF pretty much every agreed here, that it was the enormous resilience that was part of their trademark. Defense experts, siege experts. Unrelenting, hard to kill. That's what being an IF should be all about. Penance is part of who they are once the battle is over.

Alex

See, that would have made a much better theme for other Chapters (Matis Legion spring to mind), but it doesn't really work for the Fists. It's a minor theme compared to the ones that you've mentioned. What's more the penance theme didn't even really come across that well in print and wasn't well mechanically represented. Frankly, I was unaware that it was the authors main theme until he outright stated here.

ak-73 said:

Forum mangling again.

A few extra points of AV for 500xp and quite a long time taken to do it? It's very niche (defend scenarios only, really), and I don't think that improving cover needed to be codified in such a manner. Stacking up sandbags in front of a position should improve AV, and I don't think many GMs would cry 'no, it doesn't work that way' in that situation. Hence, it seems pretty worthless to me. And a lesser duplication of the frankly rather cool Solo Mode.

The Squad patterns are really depressing. Given such a choice, I'd almost certainly petition the GM for a re-write, or something different.

Tactics at 100xp is indeed the good stuff on the list (along with eye of vengeance, which I assume is there to encourage Devs, but doesn't really work well theme-wise). But 100xp? Really? That's the price that Space Wolves normally pick up a 200xp skill [wrangling] for, and is really out of whack with other pricing on skill lists.

I really don't think they're as bad as you make them out to be, afterall there's plenty of redundancy to be found in the other Chapter lists.

And I hope they give us the White Scars, though the forum version is very good already.