It appears that the wording on TitG makes you discard 2 cards and then put characters into play insane. Would Snow Graves prevent this from happening, i.e. do those cards ever technically hit the discard pile?
Things in the Ground + Snow Graves
AUCodeMonkey said:
It appears that the wording on TitG makes you discard 2 cards and then put characters into play insane. Would Snow Graves prevent this from happening, i.e. do those cards ever technically hit the discard pile?
I asked Damon about this last week just to make double sure before regionals.
"I have a question concerning the interaction between Snow Graves and Things in the Ground.
Snow Graves-
Subtype: Attachment
"Attach to a player's discard pile. Cards cannot be moved out of attached discard pile for any reason."
Things in the Ground-
Subtype: Environment
"Action: Exhaust Things in the Ground to discard the top 2 cards of each player's deck. Any characters that would be discarded by this effect are instead put into play insane."
If I play 'Snow Graves' on my opponent's discard pile and then exhaust my 'Things in the Ground', does my opponent get any of their discarded characters put into play insane, or does 'Snow Graves' prevent this from occurring?
Does the first sentence of the 'Things in the Ground' action have to resolve before the next sentence of the 'Things in the Ground' action?
Thanks in advance for any help. "
Good morning,
There is no interaction between Snow Graves and Things in the Ground. While Snow Graves clearly states that no card can be moved out of the attached discard pile, Things in the Ground's second statement is a replacement effect. As you discard the cards from the first effect, the second effect ensures that any character that would be (not is) discarded by this effect is instead put into play insane.
To answer your second question, sort of. The second effect is dependent on the first, since all it does is act as a modifier to the first effect. If something prevent the cards from being discarded there is nothing for the second effect to modify where those character cards went. That said the character cards hit by this effect are marked for discard but the second effect prevents them from ever entering the discard pile. Think of it as a detour. The character cards are being forced to a different destination than where they were originally headed, without ever having arrived at the first destination.
Hellfury said:
Things in the Ground's second statement is a replacement effect.
From the FAQ on 'Replacement Effects':
The word “instead” lies at the heart of
the replacement effect, as it allows the
new effect to occur in place of the effect
it is replacing.
Can we expect a new errata for Things in the Ground? I certainly hope so.
The word instead is in the second sentence.
jhaelen said:
Hellfury said:
Things in the Ground's second statement is a replacement effect.
Wow, a somewaht surprising answer. I'm also less than thrilled that this is supposed to be a replacement effect. Where's the 'instead' keyword?
From the FAQ on 'Replacement Effects':
The word “instead” lies at the heart of
the replacement effect, as it allows the
new effect to occur in place of the effect
it is replacing.
Can we expect a new errata for Things in the Ground? I certainly hope so.
"Action: Exhaust Things in the Ground to discard the top 2 cards of each player's deck. Any characters that would be discarded by this effect are instead put into play insane."
The qualifying statement of that effect being "Any characters that would be discarded". They are not quite to the point of being discarded since you have to check the status of a card before it can be discarded. If it is a character, then it is put into play insane, otherwise discard it as per the first sentence of the TitG action.
Penfold said:
The word instead is in the second sentence.
I'm sorry for any confusion caused. Don't drink and post, I guess
Sweet. Glad to see that Snow Graves isn't entirely broken. Still gotta find ways to deal with it though! Thanks for asking, Patrick
