Hey

just a question about something mentioned in RH pg 170: Rather than the Talent's usual effects, it serves to boost the psyker's Psy Rating by 1 for the Sorcerer Talent, and by an additional 1 for Master Sorcerer.

given that it implies that a psyker can have Master Sorcerer Talent - how (other than Elite Advance) can a Psyker gain this talent? - as far as i can see the only way to get it is to be a forsaken priest, malefic scholar or be an NPC from DotDG - I've searched all the books i have which is the core book and all the supplements except accension and blood martyrs (i can get hold of these tho from friends if the means is in those)

This is the kind of thing that practically screams "Dark Pact." As usual in standard stories about selling your soul to the Devil in exchange for vast powers.

Check the Radical's Handbook under Radical Career Ranks. Check out Tainted Psyker.

There ya go, another way to get Sorceror. All you need is 15+ Corruption, Rank 5+, and a decent backlog of XP.

Otherwise, Dark Pacts should work to grant instant magical knowledge (Tzeentch is itching for the chance, seriously), as should Elite Advances (unusually high-rank access to hidden dark tomes or stolen from a cult, something to justify the newfound knowledge on warp manipulation).

If I ever GM for a Psyker, I know for a fact I'll be leaving some tempting treats of corruption out there in the world for an actively tainted warp-dabbler on the go!

Unusualsuspect said:

Tainted Psyker gets only Sorcerer talent. Dharkus asked about master sorcerer. And it looks like there is no way for a psyker to get it.

maybe they're just hinting towards a future release than none of us know about or maybe they've hidden it in a really stupid place - like non 40k rulebook - maybe it's in an errata that's due to come out soon for the RH

Maybe Elite Advances exist because they're a perfectly reasonable mechanic to increase fun. Power-wise, though, if you want Master Sorceror as a psyker, you gotta cross the GM barrier for the AOK - i guess it just assumes that such a power boost with such a danger increase on an already volitile character is something you want the GM to think long and hard about allowing.

Sorry I misread the OP, though. Horrible mistake on my part.

Alternatively, go Adept and take both the psy advancement tree and the alternative rank from the Radical's. At least I believe it has Master Sorceror.

well i can't do that last suggestion as i'm at 2900 xp and just about to get to 3k xp (a prerequisite for Tainted Psyker) as a Psyker

I don't think there is meant to be a "normal" way to get Master Sorcerer. Sorcery is not meant to be a "normal" part of a character's progression, it is a choice made and pursued outside the norm. And certainly not a choice to be taken lightly. I certainly wouldn't allow the taking of any of the sorcery things without roleplaying the choice of doing so... it isn't just something you pick off a sheet of options.

Therefore ideal for an "elite advance", in the right circumstances.

borithan said:

The forsaken priest and malefic scholar have master sorcerer in "normal" character progression path. The question was if it is a regular way, except as an elite advance for a tainted psyker to have it, beacuse tainted psyker has only sorcerer not master sorcerer in his progression table.

If anyone will have the time, privacy, and raw ability to master sorcery, it will be a priest well-versed in putting on a song and dance to convince you of his faith while studying "the enlightened teachings of pre-Heresy spontaneous Emperor worship," as he calls them, or hideously tainted tomes of dark knowledge, as they're more factually known.

Ditto for the adept, actually, without the song and dance. Adepts wouldn't have friends needing impressing, nor even anyone interested enough to bother. They might have to make some sort of literary excuse, though. "pre-Heresy Geneologies and their effect on historical study" or somesuch should work.

Psykers? By Fluff, the only time you're getting much "downtime" as far as "not constantly being watched by the Imperium" is concerned is probably during missions or in-character retreats/escapes from pursuers.

This gets relaxed, as I understand it, once you start reaching Ascension level. At that point, if you are an Interrogator or Inquisitor, you could probably get the privacy needed to study without that study being known for what it actually is.

Again: Elite Advances are your friend. Honestly, EVERYTHING is already supposed to be GM approval only already, technically. Elite Advances are basically just automatic flags for a GM to more carefully consider all the consequences of allowing such an advance. If your psyker makes the time, and either doesn't care others know or manages to learn in secret, and the GM doesn't feel the elite advance would unduly upset party balance (given Master Sorceror comes with penalties as well as bonuses, penalties that could lead the party to more common Perils of the Warp, which is sometimes as bad for everyone else as the psyker himself), then a GM has no reason not to grant that Elite Advance.

Adepts can get a psy rating, so they can benefit from the stacking of psy rating and master sorcerer.

KommissarK said:

As I understand it, Adepts can get Psy Rating 1. This means the Adept is better off just using Master Sorceror's effective PR 4, rather than an effective PR of 3. =P

That is a world of difference from having, even at high xp cost, Psy Rating 8 instead of 6. Pre-Ascension, it means the last-ditch-effort attack is going to be that much more perils-prone, and why the heck not? Its last ditch, character'd die anyway, let the fireworks begin... But for general power use, its basically just useful for the occasional psyker equivalent of "mine is bigger than yours, nyeh nyeh". Post Ascension, that's the difference of an extra 1d10 (on average +5 to the power roll) on the "never roll phenom, so no negative to having +20 to the roll" mode, aka "fettered". On many powers, that is an extra Overbleed. For some really high-end powers, thats the difference between success and failure.

Oddly, Sorceror and Master Sorceror really isn't all that powerful unless you've got a very low Psy Rating naturally (and need every add to the power roll it to even successfully manifest powers) or have reached Ascension and the risk-free fettered manifesting where Psy Rating plays a larger part in efficacy.

Mostly, I'd consider it a useful vehicle for picking up Flaming Word, Exsanguinate, and other nasty little sorceries, and an expensive one at that.

corebook pg49 rank; magister

psy rating 2 @300xp

psy rating 3 @500xp

raffalin said:

rayze said:

And can't adepts ascend into primaris psyker, and benefit from psy rating +1 talents?

Anyway, this doesn't help the OP. Yes, go tainted psyker, and beg for an elite advance. Justify it by acquiring proscribed texts and making dark pacts. This is a terrible idea for a PC btw.

Personally, I find it far better to "fall into" sorcery, rather than "plan to become" one, so take that as you will.

Bear in mind that as a Psyker, gaining the knowledge and ability to become a sorcerer is far, far easier. They are connected to the Warp, and so a particularly devious Daemon could speak to him, whisper in his ear, or simply endeavour to ensure his followers always leave just enough of the unholy tome or not quite break the databank so the Psyker has a chance to find it. The forces of Chaos seek to sow Chaos, and Tzeentch especially would find sacrificing entire cults of worshippers worth while if he could corrupt but a single faithful Psyker, for no other greater purpose then to twist man's faith and watch the fall.

I think the main reason Master Sorcerer is not available for a Psyker without an Elite Advance is for game balance. The Adept could only attain an effective Psy Rating of 5 at rank 8, while a Pysker could gain rating 6 at rank 5, if allowed, which is too much too soon when talking about hard copy RAW. Master Sorcerer is the sort of thing that comes from a long time practising Sorcery, I would make it available at rank 7 were it my call.

Just my 2c

dharkus said:

The way I understand it is that Sorcerer and Master Sorceres Talents were, primarily, not intend for PC, but for NPC only.

possibly but they did specifically introduce the option to 3 career paths in RH